im outta ideas! HELP! - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 08-13-2009, 03:35 AM Thread Starter
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im outta ideas! HELP!

i recently adopted a 17.1 trakner gelding, he is 12 years old. He was previously abused. The people we got him from (not the abusers!) were afraid of him. He basically walked all over them. Ive trained multiple horses and am a very strong rider. This horse refuses to canter half the time. Ive tried spurs and a whip. Since he was abused he fights back and tries to buck me off. After that even if i just ask him to walk he pins his ears at me. He is also a very dominet horse he was the heard leader at his old barn. And he pushed around his previous owners. Soooo i decided to try a more horsey approach. I tried that natural horsey join up thingy. (i was very skeptical) first of all he wouldnt even run around the round pen without me flicking a whip at him and second after he had his ear towards me and was slowing down everytime i let him stop he would just eat grass or stare into the distance. It was pointless. I am at a total loss what to do with this guy. Hes a really great horse just has a few issues...if you have any ideas they would be greatly appriciated!!
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post #2 of 11 Old 08-13-2009, 03:47 AM
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How long have you had him? I ask this because it can take many months to rebuild trust in an "abused" horse.
If it has been recently, then the only answer is..SLOW, PATIENT, CONSISTENT.
What I specifically mean is this...Don't ask too much too soon.If your horse is a bit more at ease while walking, stay at that for a time, then when you know that has been consistently positive, ask to trot. Trot for a while, and so on...
You'll have to go very slowly, as he obviously has not had good experiences with people.Horse have in my opinion, the longest memory of any animal I know.
It will benefit you to handle from the ground more often, groom quietly, handle gently but firmly. I have been through this a few times, and what I have found is you need to slowly rebuild the trust in your horse, and we can't expect them to act in the time we think in...It can take a long time but, chances are, if you go slowly, only go for short sessions at a time (say half-hour a day for while under saddle, if that is where the problems mostly are) he will also slowly get used to your consistency, and with time, work out his trust issues.
As with any horse, your new key word is patience! Nothing good ever comes quick and easy! Good Luck to you -Lw
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post #3 of 11 Old 08-13-2009, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by caleb44 View Post
first of all he wouldnt even run around the round pen without me flicking a whip at him and second after he had his ear towards me and was slowing down everytime i let him stop he would just eat grass or stare into the distance. It was pointless.
The join up "thingy" is a lot more than just running the horse around in a circle...... If he did not turn and face you when you let him stop because he gave you an ear, eye or was licking his lips, then those feet need to get moving again right now. He keeps going until he responds in the appropriate manner. It's not pointless, your just not up to speed on join-up. Search on youtube, there are many good examples from well know trainers.

You didn't say how long you've had the horse, nor did you indicate if he has been looked at by a vet. Instead of using spurs and whips to get him to canter how about getting his body alignment checked out for pain issues.

How does he move at a canter on a line or in a round pen sans rider and saddle?

Have you checked your saddle fit?

You need to give him time to get to know you, to trust you, to have faith in you that your not just a person who hurts him.
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post #4 of 11 Old 08-13-2009, 02:22 PM
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G and Ks mom gave you some great advice. To that, I just want to agree with the fact that you need to slow down. From the sounds of it, the horse does not trust you and you do not trust him. There is no bond there and you are both getting frustrated with one another.

Work on perfecting his behavior on the ground and getting to know one another before you worry about him cantering in the saddle.
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post #5 of 11 Old 08-14-2009, 01:51 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for the advice guys :) i guess i did rush things a bit. Ive only had him for about 2 weeks. We did just start trail riding recently and he is MUCH happier doing that then in the ring. I think were gunna stick with trails for a bit till he relaxes. He has been looked over by a vet and is completly sound and in good health. And for joining up everytime when he would stop and stare i would ask him to move of off and he literally would not move. I could take steps toward him and raise my arms and even flick the line at him. he just didnt care. I would still like to work on the join-up with him but am unsure how to handle him.
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post #6 of 11 Old 08-14-2009, 02:38 PM
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Have you read any of Monty Roberts books or watched any video of him working with horses?
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post #7 of 11 Old 08-14-2009, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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i have not. who is he?? i'll deffinatly have to look him up...
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post #8 of 11 Old 08-14-2009, 03:27 PM
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Monty Roberts is the one who "Created" Join-Up.

Youtube Monty Roberts Join-Up

His website is Monty Roberts Join Up, Man Who Listens to Horses, Real Horse Whisperer, Books, Biography, Train, Demonstrations, Flag is Up and he has some great books out that really helped me understand join up
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post #9 of 11 Old 08-15-2009, 03:34 PM
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If the horse refuses to move his feet in the round pen, you need to make it more uncomfortable for him to stand still. Be sure you are standing behind his "drive line" (the girth) and ask him to move out by increasing the pressure. Cluck, spank the ground closer and closer to the horse. If you have to actually "spank" him to get him to move, do so - carefully. The idea is to make him uncomfortable - not to hurt him. You won't have to use that much force too many times for him to learn you mean business.

Please note: there is a BIG difference between a spank and abuse!!!!

Plain Old Dee, horses Dancer and Rain

I believe in dragons, unicorns, good men and other mythical creatures!
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post #10 of 11 Old 08-15-2009, 04:46 PM
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If you don't know who Monty Roberts is then your almost certainly not doing join-up correctly. Spend the time and read his book so that you understand the philosophy behind the technique. If the horse won't move off when you cluck or move toward it you need to be more physical and don't be timid when you whack him. It is not abuse. Letting him continue on thee course that he's on and being miserable and useless is abuse.
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