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        08-28-2012, 10:36 PM
      #11
    Foal
    I would sit with him. Devote a lot of time to him. He wants your attention. Give it to him. Attention, yes. But not in the form he wants. If you use a chained lead rope, sit with him, make him stand. No movement. Practice standing him squared up like in a halter class for instance. He does anything - anything at all displeasing - pop him with the chain. He reacts backwards and away from the lead rope? Work him. He wants to go backwards away from the chain? Force him backwards. Then he gets what he wants and realizes it's not really what he wants. He wants to go forward from it? Make the lead rope a lunge line and work him. Pop his butt with the end of the lead rope, very lightly of course just to keep him moving. Then, he'll look at you like "Come on, that's not cool." Then set him up again, stand him square. Pet him while he's giving you what you want. Positive reinforcement. But don't ignore him when he's misbehaving.
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        08-28-2012, 10:54 PM
      #12
    Foal
    Thank you to those whom are offering sound advice and not pointing fingers...if I didn't want help I wouldn't be asking... there are ways to put things and ways not to. I'm assuming everyone here must have had very bad experiences or are at barns where everyone is perfect and no one discriminates. Sorry I'm new to the boarding world and was offered by the trainer to bring him in. Im not a spoiled barn brat as most call them, So, in turn, you ask.for help you get none, you resort to the only thing you assume is right. I can't express gratitude enough, Thank you again to those of you who were kind enough to help with suggestions, to the rest of you, your day is coming to be arrogent to someone who really needs help and you don't help. Think about what you type before you type it.
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        08-29-2012, 08:11 AM
      #13
    Showing
    I agree about spending time with the horse but here's a twist. Take a book and a seat and sit just outside his stall, just be there. Reading takes your mind off any agenda you may have with him. Become the one pleasant thing that is familiar to him. No need to groom or pet him or even talk to him. Read. This has a calming effect on the horse and by sitting you pose no threat. You are likely anxious to do things with him but this is the beginning of teaching him to trust you. Devote a week to this. I devoted a month to just being nearby in the pasture. And I devoted two more weeks to just saying horse hello and leaving. Something we still do. I am now who he turns to for comfort, not his pasture pal. To teach him to stand still, don't yank on him. He might respect the punishment but it's better if he respects you. Do this outside where there's room to lunge him. Keep your whip handy and ask him with the halter and voice to stand. As soon as he moves a hoof, lunge him 3 only circles, at a brisk trot, then ask again. Repeat as many times as you have to but he'll likely figure it out after the third time. He should stand for you. You have given him the choice to work or stand still. Horses always have in mind to conserve energy for that emergency sprint so he'll opt to stand still. Keep in mind a horse rarely learns after the first or second try but often by the third.
         
        08-29-2012, 09:49 AM
      #14
    Weanling
    I agree tie him out for patience away from his buddies:) He will eventually get tired of calling and pawing and all of the nonsense.

    As for the pushing you into things, heres what I do when one of mine do that and wont move off of me poking them in the side- they get a swift kick to an upper leg, or a good punch to the neck usually accompanied by a good growl from me- tends to bring their minds back to what we are doing- but then again I do not take kindly to that kind of behaviour. Mine tie, and when this happens they might take a jump back but immediatly come forward when they hit the rope.

    When I had my 4 year old ( taught her to tie myself), I worked alot on release of pressure, I taught her to lead with this (you want pressure release you come towards whats pulling on you, if you move away pressure mounts) and I carried this over to tieing aswell. At first I wouldnt tie hard , I would just toss my rope over itself a few times, its strong enough to not give at slight pressure but if the horse gets to really pulling they can move back a bit (like blocker tie ring theory but ALOT cheaper ). I had to wollop on her a couple times for attemtping to push me into the trailer while hollering out to buddies- she would yank on the rope a bit but due to the pressure and release training she easily gave up on that endeavor and then pay attention to me.


    Every horse has his impatient days but unless you nip that pushy behaviour in the bud, you are doing that horse (and people who have to deal with that horse) no favors.
         
        08-29-2012, 10:09 AM
      #15
    Foal
    Keep a leadrope on him while he's on cross ties so you can quickly correct him when he starts to move too much and do a "neck twitch" to keep him still. He won't move while you are pinching him and he will get the point. Put a soft bucket infront of him so if he paws, he kicks it and scares himself a bit but he won't get hurt. Also work on the ground with him. Teach him voice commands, "back" and "over". Horses LOVE to learn and if you teach him some simple voice commands/tricks he will respect you a lot more. Good luck and NEVER lose your patience with a horse.
         
        08-29-2012, 01:58 PM
      #16
    Showing
    As I read some of the advice I'm amazed at how much of it is about inflicting pain. Patience pole and the horse's brain. Instinct tells the horse not to be alone and not able to escape because he'll wind up as dinner. So lets instill so much fear the horse's brain shuts down. When he finally stands quietly it's because he has given up and is prepared to die. People advise this rather than take the time to teach the horse to stand and move him when he won't.
         
        08-29-2012, 02:34 PM
      #17
    Weanling
    You are aware it goes against instinct to even ride these animals? We are a predator and we are on their back. I don't believe we can completely push back a horses instincts, but we can teach them to think another way and not be so reactive to stimulus.. like horse mutilating plastic baggies, or soul sucking squirrels:)

    I don't advocate beating the ever loving snot out of a horse for spooking at something or not standing stock still for grooming/saddling whatever because that just isnt fair or just, and ill use the "placing them back in the same spot" method if they are in a calm/kind of calm state of mind- BUT if they are reacting to something (in this case where my buddies at??!!??) or just being a dipstick and im in a position of about to be a grease spot- you bet your patooty I will use immediate and quick force to get that horse off of me. My horses are allowed to be horses but I expect them to be mindful of where im at. They do far worse stuff to each other than my kick/jab/growl...
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        08-29-2012, 04:10 PM
      #18
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by peppersgirl    
    you are aware it goes against instinct to even ride these animals? We are a predator and we are on their back. I don't believe we can completely push back a horses instincts, but we can teach them to think another way and not be so reactive to stimulus.. like horse mutilating plastic baggies, or soul sucking squirrels:)

    I don't advocate beating the ever loving snot out of a horse for spooking at something or not standing stock still for grooming/saddling whatever because that just isnt fair or just, and ill use the "placing them back in the same spot" method if they are in a calm/kind of calm state of mind- BUT if they are reacting to something (in this case where my buddies at??!!??) or just being a dipstick and im in a position of about to be a grease spot- you bet your patooty I will use immediate and quick force to get that horse off of me. My horses are allowed to be horses but I expect them to be mindful of where im at. They do far worse stuff to each other than my kick/jab/growl...
    So, you "teach them to think another way" by punching them, kicking them or growling at them? Really?

    If you actually worked on pressure/release as you say you did, you would realize it is for more than leading. So, IF you really worked on it you would have no need to punch or kick......or even growl. Then you will most likely not be in a position (because you will have gained their respect, rather than fear) of being a "grease spot". Horses who respect you are extremely mindful of where you are, since you are the alpha. BUT- you have to do the ground work to get there.

    When a horse is being dangerous, certainly I agree that you have to correct it, quickly and leaving no doubt who is the boss. But, once the groundwork is done, there should be RARE ocassions, if at all, that this is necessary.

    I am not in the book reading outside the stall/in the pasture group, however, I do not want to use any more effort than neccessary on a daily basis for my horses to behave. So, I train them, not intimidate them.

    We are all entitled to our opinions, and some will work better than others. However-I do agree the OP needs to take a hard look at how she is handling the horse. Period. I think her mood is affecting how the horse behaves, and I think she needs some help with ground training to gain respect, if she is not capable of doing it.

    Sorry if anyone takes offense, but we are all supposed to be adults, and I am not one to mince words, so get your panties all bunched up if you like. Won't bother me a bit, nor will it change my opinion.
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        08-29-2012, 04:49 PM
      #19
    Weanling
    No panties bunched here, and fear not: I do not beat on my horses and in fact I believe in love and respect and lots of pats (if the horse is not being a twit). ANd they both seem happy to see me when I head down to the barn.. This happens very rarely with pepper- but there are times she gets her head up her butt and needs to be reminded (but its been ages since she has recieved to much of a reprimand99% of the time is a "HEYYY")...Beauty on the other hand, I have only owned her a month (known her for a few years though) and she is a little less responsive to subtly- while she is usually respectful, the other night while pepper was being lead from the barn she basically body slammed me so she could turn and screech at her pal, so yes that did warrant a kick in my book. She pulled back a little and then looked at me like "oh opsiee"... and then stood like a lady (not all wide eyed and snorty like im sure some of you are imagining). As with that 4 year old I only ever got on her twice maybe 3 times for being a space invader- and low and behold a year and a half later she is still stands marvelous, and isnt an ounce scared of anybody.

    I do have to kind of laugh though at the notion that once taught "properly"- the horse can be expected to never do anything bad ever... Both of my current horses have spent signifigant time with professional trainers through out their lives- and I have worked in a barn with MANY proffesionally trained performance horses, and I can tell you for a fact, that even with the best of the best foundation or years of riding, great horses can still be idiots at times and need to have attitudes adjusted.
         
        08-29-2012, 06:11 PM
      #20
    Foal
    [QUOTE=I do have to kind of laugh though at the notion that once taught "properly"- the horse can be expected to never do anything bad ever... Both of my current horses have spent signifigant time with professional trainers through out their lives- and I have worked in a barn with MANY proffesionally trained performance horses, and I can tell you for a fact, that even with the best of the best foundation or years of riding, great horses can still be idiots at times and need to have attitudes adjusted.[/QUOTE]

    Oh! AMEN! To this! The best trained horse can and will misbehave on occassion. And for those of you who think you NEVER hit a horse for any reason....Bull(cough) My trainer, whom I respect GREATLY, will hit a horse if it's necessary. I've seen him light into a horse a time or 2. THAT horse NEVER, repeat NEVER, shows any fear or terror of him at all. In fact, I've seen his horses BEG for his attention AND His horses are extremely well behaved. So much so, that knowing he was the trainer for a stallion, I didn't even hesitate walking into the pasture with him and catching him to tie up so I could remove my mares (a couple in heat no less) after they got out of their pasture and went visiting. It's about respect. How on earth do you think they teach respect between themselves....Please don't do that? LOL They bite, kick, strike, etc. Watch a mare with her foal some time. If he doesn't listen...he might get a gentle nudge the first time, but after that it's gloves off. Now, I do NOT advocate beating into submission either. As my trainer says....you have 5 seconds to "kill" them. After that, you're too late and just being mean.

    The OP simply asked for our help. Talking down to her or telling her she's stupid is NOT helping. Isn't helping each other what this forum is about or was I wrong when I joined? We all have different methods of training and different levels of experience. I can tell you after this thread....I won't be asking for any help or advice from you folks when MY horse acts up.
         

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