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This is a discussion on Impatient.. within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        08-30-2012, 01:06 AM
      #21
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kccjer    
    Oh! AMEN! To this! The best trained horse can and will misbehave on occassion. And for those of you who think you NEVER hit a horse for any reason....Bull(cough) My trainer, whom I respect GREATLY, will hit a horse if it's necessary. I've seen him light into a horse a time or 2. THAT horse NEVER, repeat NEVER, shows any fear or terror of him at all. In fact, I've seen his horses BEG for his attention AND His horses are extremely well behaved. So much so, that knowing he was the trainer ofor a stallion, I didn't even hesitate walking into the pasture with him and catching him to tie up so I could remove my mares (a couple in heat no less) after they got out of their pasture and went visiting. It's about respect. How on earth do you think they teach respect between themselves....Please don't do that? LOL They bite, kick, strike, etc. Watch a mare with her foal some time. If he doesn't listen...he might get a gentle nudge the first time, but after that it's gloves off. Now, I do NOT advocate beating into submission either. As my trainer says....you have 5 seconds to "kill" them. After that, you're too late and just being mean.

    The OP simply asked for our help. Talking down to her or telling her she's stupid is NOT helping. Isn't helping each other what this forum is about or was I wrong when I joined? We all have different methods of training and different levels of experience. I can tell you after this thread....I won't be asking for any help or advice from you folks when MY horse acts up.
    I was going to type that very same thing about help...but didn't know how to put it...thanks a lot :) also I didnt want to put those nice enough to help down...and still thanks everyone for the imput. Its going to be trial and error...its nice to know and read that every ones horses aren't always perfect...
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        08-30-2012, 03:08 AM
      #22
    Trained
    Just some thoughts on some comments I think worth further consideration...

    Quote:
    do a "neck twitch" to keep him still. He won't move while you are pinching him and he will get the point.
    IME 'twitches' of any kind are in no way reliable. If you pinch a horse while they're standing still, what point exactly do you think they're getting? I personally don't want a horse to 'get the point' that standing still is something it gets punished for.

    Quote:
    I do have to kind of laugh though at the notion that once taught "properly"- the horse can be expected to never do anything bad ever...
    ... And for those of you who think you NEVER hit a horse for any reason...
    Must have missed those bits, don't recall anyone saying anything of the sort. But yes, if they were said, I personally disagree with them too.

    Quote:
    Oh! AMEN! To this! The best trained horse can and will misbehave on occassion. .... knowing he was the trainer for a stallion, I didn't even hesitate walking into the pasture with him and catching him
    So what are we saying here?

    Quote:
    As my trainer says....you have 5 seconds to "kill" them. After that, you're too late and just being mean.
    Actually, this is a misinterpretation(& I don't get where the 5 seconds came from). Animals learn by *instant* association and don't get abstract ideas such as 'What I did earlier earned punishment now'. Different animals have different capacities for association. What is often touted as 'the 3 second rule' comes from studies they've done with dogs that show that *at worst*(meaning you should never plan to be so tardy about it), dogs can often still associate cause & effect if the punishment happens within 3 seconds of the 'misdemeanor'. Similar studies on horses show that they have much less ability in this way & they don't link cause & effect if it's any later than a second or 2 after the behaviour. So... it's important to punish/reinforce any behaviour you want to effect *at the time of that behaviour*, but at worst, you might be in luck that the horse actually works out what the consequence was for if it happens within 2 seconds max.

    I'm not at all against punishment personally, used correctly & judiciously, but the idea that it's OK to make them believe you're going to kill them(regardless of timing) has absolutely no basis in anything so far as I know & is not something I'd advise you do to a prey animal you want to trust & respect you enough to 'behave' safely for you.
    EvilHorseOfDoom likes this.
         

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