It's Time for Horse Training to Evolve - Page 11 - The Horse Forum

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post #101 of 176 Old 10-14-2013, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by onuilmar View Post
I stand by what I said. Positive increases the likelihod and negative reduces the likelihood. That is why shocks are called negative reinforcement and the removal is positive reinforcement.

And the withholding of positive reinforcement that is expected is also negative reinforcement.
reinforcement increases likelihood and punishment reduces likelihood. Shocks are called positive punishment because you add (positive) something that reduces the likelihood of a behaviour (punishment).

The withholding of a positive reinforcer is negative punishment, you've withheld (negative) something, the act of which has reduced the likelihood of a behaviour (punishment).

Quote:
Negative reinforcers are negative consequences
I think this is the source of most confusion. Negative in this context does not mean "bad" or "undesirable" or "aversive". Negative only describes that you've REMOVED something.
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post #102 of 176 Old 10-14-2013, 04:28 PM
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Training can occur without bit or saddles.

Training can occur without fear.

There are examples to follow out there if that is the direction you want to go.



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"The greatest strength is gentleness."
- Iroquois Proverb
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post #103 of 176 Old 10-14-2013, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SorrelHorse View Post

........running 40mph today at a barrel my horse turned it smokin and hauled tail for home.

And I forgot to give her a treat immediately for a good turn!

..... lord knows horses only have about a three second connection time between action and reward........

Didn't you get back within three seconds? :)
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post #104 of 176 Old 10-14-2013, 05:47 PM
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This is late, but just in reply to loosie, I've had her scoped for ulcers and while I believe chronic stress STARTED her cribbing, she's been doing it since she lost mama as a 2 month old and never stopped.
Good-oh, figured I was probably stating the obvious to you, but thought it worth pointing out that it has a physical basis. Many people do still think it's just boredom or such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by onuilmar View Post
I stand by what I said. Positive increases the likelihod and negative reduces the likelihood. That is why shocks are called negative reinforcement and the removal is positive reinforcement.

And the withholding of positive reinforcement that is expected is also negative reinforcement.
Since we are discussing behaviourist terminology, this is entirely incorrect. Of course, there are many different understandings of all sorts of words & terms, but if we can't stick to behavioural terminology in a thread on the subject, then no wonder it confuses people!

Negative DOES NOT mean something aversive & vice versa.
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post #105 of 176 Old 10-14-2013, 06:51 PM
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I guarantee you that the horses in that video have been tapped more than one or two times each by the little rod that man is holding in order to learn to do all of that stuff.
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post #106 of 176 Old 10-14-2013, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Endiku View Post
I guarantee you that the horses in that video have been tapped more than one or two times each by the little rod that man is holding in order to learn to do all of that stuff.

Carry your point out a bit further and explain what type of training that would imply.

Is the horse whipped into submission?

"The greatest strength is gentleness."
- Iroquois Proverb
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post #107 of 176 Old 10-14-2013, 07:34 PM
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^I don't get the point of the above questions, but I thought Honza Blaha(an awesome, inspiring horseman IMO) started out with & uses many principles of Parelli.
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post #108 of 176 Old 10-14-2013, 07:38 PM
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I don't know. I've never personally seen him train. However, to get those sorts of reactions he has to have put pressure on those horses and taught them to move away from it immediately and quickly as soon as he gives them a signal. Obviously it is a fantastic method for those horses and he is a remarkable horseman, but I don't think his training has much to do with the topic of this thread other than that he is another great trainer who uses pressure and release to achieve his goals, not clicker training and cookies.
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post #109 of 176 Old 10-14-2013, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by loosie View Post
^I don't get the point of the above questions, but I thought Honza Blaha(an awesome, inspiring horseman IMO) started out with & uses many principles of Parelli.

Do you personally know that he was inspired by Parelli?

Please explain.

"The greatest strength is gentleness."
- Iroquois Proverb
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post #110 of 176 Old 10-14-2013, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Endiku View Post
I don't know. I've never personally seen him train. However, to get those sorts of reactions he has to have put pressure on those horses and taught them to move away from it immediately and quickly as soon as he gives them a signal. Obviously it is a fantastic method for those horses and he is a remarkable horseman, but I don't think his training has much to do with the topic of this thread other than that he is another great trainer who uses pressure and release to achieve his goals, not clicker training and cookies.
It has everything to do with the thread as the thread asks where train might evolve.

Is this an example of one kind of evolution?

Or is it just the point of the thread to just discuss the meaning of words and how they are used in different regions of the country?

"The greatest strength is gentleness."
- Iroquois Proverb
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