It's Time for Horse Training to Evolve - Page 17 - The Horse Forum
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post #161 of 176 Old 11-05-2013, 08:01 AM
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I spent better than 30 years re-training spoiled horses. Many were headed for slaughter and I was their last hope for survival. For most of those years, all the spoiled ones were brought by customers. It seems that when you straighten out so many outlaws that had put people in the hospital (some nearly killed by horses and several crippled for life) , the word spreads and you attract every other dink that has been badly spoiled. The last few years that I re-trained them, I quit taking in outside horses and just went to sales picking all of the spoiled horses that were well-bred, good looking, sound and old enough to ride hard. Most were 5 years or older. Some were flippers, many only turned one way and reared or threatened to rear, some were led through and only a story was told or I talked to the owner before the sale.

I can tell you that almost without exception, they became very useful horses and some became really nice show horses. One shown in our website went on to win 6 AQHA World Championships and over 30 AQHA World Show 'Top Tens'. He was an outlaw when I brought him home. Some went on be big-time hunters, jumpers and dressage horses.

I very seldom ever hit any of these spoiled horses and cannot remember using a whip on a single one. BUT, you can bet I dominated them and made them all say "Yes Mam!" and back up when I indicated to them that I wanted them to back up. Their ONLY reward was that I took all pressure off and left them alone when they did the right thing. They all became completely relaxed and happy to do what they were asked to do.

Sometimes the process was not pretty. [I always said it was much like making sausage or bologna. You only wanted the end result and did not want to watch the process of making it.]

When we have had someone working for us, we always stressed that there were two completely different training techniques -- one for green un-trained horses and a completely different one for spoiled horses. Training green horses means that you are trying to teach them to do what you want. There is NEVER any reason for it to be 'rough', much less abusive. Re-training badly spoiled horses, particularly very aggressive horses, can sometimes get pretty rough. You have to have a horse submit to get them to completely 'give up' a bad behavior. Otherwise, they just go back to it when a different person tries to handle or ride them.

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post #162 of 176 Old 11-05-2013, 08:24 AM
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I do not doubt and have it done myself, that you have to set and enforce rules to keep you and your horse safe.
But I don't think this should be the center of this discussion.
I thought it was more geared towards the training aspect of it.

Horsemanship is a catchy word isn't it?
I saw Big names , when they were not so big yet. I saw instructors that learned directly from the big names. I saw real problem horses denied for the show...
...because, if you have a real troubled horse, you cannot work your instant magic...

Don't get me wrong they were good on reading the horse, but the way they handle some things...well, not my style...
It really blew my mind when one big name Trainer introduced his" choke Halter" (I call it) several years back. I bet it has a different real name, but I forgot. The idea is to put pressure on nose and pole to make the horse go (forward) and release the pressure in return. works great on softer horses to get them in the trailer- fast.

One thing that stayed very vivid in my mind, that all say, "there is just my way, that is the right one". One has to have this halter and one has to have this whip - special color- , the rope needs to be 12ft long not an inch shorter or longer....

This all serves as moving adds and money makers for them....

Most of the so called problem horses have only one big issue...and this is lost trust! They do not know they can trust a human, and either fight or flight. Sometimes time and a gentle hand and patience will do so much more. I have seen situations escalate, because the human had to have his way- now. if he would have waited just a bit longer so much stress and heartache could have been avoided...
but I also know that it is hard sometimes to recognize the right time to wait and/or encourage or if you have to you make them...

Regardless, it goes back to the Signature...
The best Riding Instructor is under the saddle....
-start listening!!!!
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"Der beste Reitlehrer ist unter dem Sattel" Max Walther
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post #163 of 176 Old 11-05-2013, 01:40 PM
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What makes an outstanding trainer is the simple fact that they can 'read' a horse.

I have seen many good trainers that cannot read a horse. They cannot tell when a horse is saying "I don't understand," or "I'm not going to."
A good trainer will have a certain method that works 95% of the time but will change methods for the 5% to achieve the same aims.
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post #164 of 176 Old 11-05-2013, 02:19 PM
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I dealt with many sur horses and what I found was that sometimes I just had to resort to corporal punishment. But, I made sure the horse the horse understood what I was asking and had likely done it many times. Some days it just decides to revert and become a bonehead. A smack with a crop usually changed it's mind. My riding crop has a flat leather "popper". It's actually folded leather about 2.5" wide and the fold is fairly flat. Slapped against the hand it makes a loud pop yet is gentle on the skin. I've never found another in numerous stores nor online, and no idea of manufacturer.
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post #165 of 176 Old 11-08-2013, 12:22 PM
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Awesome post, Cheri. It never ceases to amaze me all the talent and knowledge we have on this site <3
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The sensitivity of the internet baffles me.
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post #166 of 176 Old 11-08-2013, 06:01 PM
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^And (generally) respectfulness to eachother's differences of opinions. That we can have this sort of discussion & it stays a discussion, not a verbal brawl! That's something really amazing for an internet forum, IME!
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post #167 of 176 Old 11-09-2013, 04:26 AM
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Loosie, that respect for other people's attitudes and opinions is something which we long standing members aim to preserve. There have been occasions in the past where a thread has developed into a verbal brawl - and that is when it is time to withdraw from the topic.

Personally I am very pleased to think that new members find the Horse Forum a friendly place and long may that state of affairs continue.
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post #168 of 176 Old 11-09-2013, 05:36 AM
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PS. What always surprises me is that most of the threads and posts which prove to be popular by viewers are those written recently. Seemingly little or no attention is given to those posts which have been written in the past. Yet back in the archives are written numerous threads which when seen together represent an extensive library of advice, explaination and opinion about matters horsey.

There are very few relevant topics which have not been discussed and debated.

The archives are easily accessed by subject or by author. Try it for yourself.
If you agree with the opinion expressed in a post then the chances are that you will be like minded with the author - so go look at what else that member has written about both recently and in the past.

But I warn you that you might find yourself sitting and reading about horses for hours on end.

Barry G
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post #169 of 176 Old 11-09-2013, 06:05 AM
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^yeah I bet nothing much gets said that hasn't been before!
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post #170 of 176 Old 11-09-2013, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by loosie View Post
^yeah I bet nothing much gets said that hasn't been before!
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But horse training is somewhat the same as sex, every new generation think that they invented it
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horse training , how to train horses , positive reinforcement

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