It's Time for Horse Training to Evolve - Page 4 - The Horse Forum

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post #31 of 176 Old 10-10-2013, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by CRK View Post
Here is another article about a study done at a University in France about how positive reinforcement training boosts memory: Training: Positive Reinforcement Improves Horse Memory | TheHorse.com

And I loved this book by Karen Pryor called Don't Shoot the Dog, its a good read if you are interested in behavior science. Don't Shoot the Dog!: The New Art of Teaching and Training: Karen Pryor: 9781860542381: Amazon.com: Books
LOL even before I saw this I was thinking "someone's been reading "Don't Shoot the Dog"".
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post #32 of 176 Old 10-11-2013, 08:50 AM
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I have learned that when teaching a horse something new, in increments and with each small accomplishment I turn my back to the horse and walk away. That is a huge reward as the pressure is removed. When it is time to ask for it all, the horse will do it willingly and with try, and again I turn and walk away. A human fussing over a horse is not horse lingo. Just for fun, try not talking to your horse because when we do most of what is hears is just noise.
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post #33 of 176 Old 10-11-2013, 08:59 AM
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I think there's probably too much pressure on how fast riders (and horses) learn and not enough on how well they've learnt it
There's the 'I've had two lessons and I still can't rise to the trot'
And
My horse has been broke a week a now and still can't get his lead changes right
There is nothing wrong with fair negative reinforcement. The crime is when a horse gets punished for not being able to do something the rider or trainer never took the time to clearly educate it about or when a rider/handler allows something one day but forbids it the next
I find it unusual that any horse that's 'bonded' to a person wouldn't respond to verbal praise as positive reinforcement
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post #34 of 176 Old 10-11-2013, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Saddlebag View Post
I have learned that when teaching a horse something new, in increments and with each small accomplishment I turn my back to the horse and walk away. That is a huge reward as the pressure is removed. When it is time to ask for it all, the horse will do it willingly and with try, and again I turn and walk away. A human fussing over a horse is not horse lingo. Just for fun, try not talking to your horse because when we do most of what is hears is just noise.
Haahahaha really? Isn't that supposed to be something people do for "joining up"? So it's a reward? LOL!?
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post #35 of 176 Old 10-11-2013, 09:44 AM
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"I find it unusual that any horse that's 'bonded' to a person wouldn't respond to verbal praise as positive reinforcement"

Well, I think Mia likes me well enough, but saying, "You're a good girl" to her is not a very strong positive reinforcement. She responds well to soft tones when she is nervous, but saying "Good girl" when she stops well probably has about 1% of the effect that 60 seconds of rest has. Maybe if I learned how to say it in Arabic...

"People can teach us the rules, but only horses can teach us the art of riding."
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post #36 of 176 Old 10-11-2013, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by CRK View Post
Negative reinforcement is something that the horse moves away from, positive reinforcement is something the horse moves toward. Neither is inherently bad or good, its how each is used.
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Originally Posted by Cherie View Post
I completely disagree with how you define positive and negative reinforcement.
The above definition of positive and negative reinforcement is a technical, scientific definition. This is how "reinforcement" is defined by B.F. Skinner of behavioral or learning theory psychology.

Disagreeing with it is like disagreeing with Galileo's definition of gravity. Well, may be not quite, but... :)
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post #37 of 176 Old 10-11-2013, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
The above definition of positive and negative reinforcement is a technical, scientific definition. This is how "reinforcement" is defined by B.F. Skinner of behavioral or learning theory psychology.

Disagreeing with it is like disagreeing with Galileo's definition of gravity. Well, may be not quite, but... :)
well then, I'm moving into the negative camp for good. To me it should be a wrong decision/serious mistake has negative consequences, a right decision has a reward. In the case of a horse, refusing to go forward out of laziness or disrespect may get them a swap with my crop(negative), while going forward when asked will result in an immediate release of pressure(reward, possitive)

Its only when the possitive and negative(by my definition, not the non applicable one above) get unballanced that you have problems.
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post #38 of 176 Old 10-11-2013, 10:27 AM
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I don't have really have anything to add other than at least in my area, it seems more common to see a spoiled disrespectful horse versus an abused one. Very few of the problem horses I've been around are truly acting out of fear, most are just being horses and trying to establish themselves above you in the pecking order.
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So in lies the madness, the pursuit of the impossible in the face of the complete assurance that you will fail, and yet still you chase.
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post #39 of 176 Old 10-11-2013, 12:34 PM Thread Starter
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I just wanted to thank everyone for their feedback on this, whether you agreed or disagreed! Before I put this on on my blog, I went through and rewrote the article in an attempt to make it more objective and better convey my intent. You helped me realize which parts were truly my personal opinions (us horse people can have such strong opinions) and only made people defensive, and also to cite my writing better so it doesn't look like I am trying to claim the credit for all of these ideas as my own! Thanks again!
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post #40 of 176 Old 10-11-2013, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by onuilmar View Post
The above definition of positive and negative reinforcement is a technical, scientific definition. This is how "reinforcement" is defined by B.F. Skinner of behavioral or learning theory psychology.
Disagreeing with it is like disagreeing with Galileo's definition of gravity. Well, may be not quite, but... :)
negative reinforcement is not "something that the horse moves away from" and positive reinforcement is not "something the horse moves toward".
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