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It's Time for Horse Training to Evolve

This is a discussion on It's Time for Horse Training to Evolve within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        10-10-2013, 09:00 PM
      #31
    Yearling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CRK    
    Here is another article about a study done at a University in France about how positive reinforcement training boosts memory: Training: Positive Reinforcement Improves Horse Memory | TheHorse.com

    And I loved this book by Karen Pryor called Don't Shoot the Dog, its a good read if you are interested in behavior science. Don't Shoot the Dog!: The New Art of Teaching and Training: Karen Pryor: 9781860542381: Amazon.com: Books
    LOL even before I saw this I was thinking "someone's been reading "Don't Shoot the Dog"".
    loosie likes this.
         
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        10-11-2013, 08:50 AM
      #32
    Showing
    I have learned that when teaching a horse something new, in increments and with each small accomplishment I turn my back to the horse and walk away. That is a huge reward as the pressure is removed. When it is time to ask for it all, the horse will do it willingly and with try, and again I turn and walk away. A human fussing over a horse is not horse lingo. Just for fun, try not talking to your horse because when we do most of what is hears is just noise.
         
        10-11-2013, 08:59 AM
      #33
    Super Moderator
    I think there's probably too much pressure on how fast riders (and horses) learn and not enough on how well they've learnt it
    There's the 'I've had two lessons and I still can't rise to the trot'
    And
    My horse has been broke a week a now and still can't get his lead changes right
    There is nothing wrong with fair negative reinforcement. The crime is when a horse gets punished for not being able to do something the rider or trainer never took the time to clearly educate it about or when a rider/handler allows something one day but forbids it the next
    I find it unusual that any horse that's 'bonded' to a person wouldn't respond to verbal praise as positive reinforcement
    Chevaux likes this.
         
        10-11-2013, 09:36 AM
      #34
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
    I have learned that when teaching a horse something new, in increments and with each small accomplishment I turn my back to the horse and walk away. That is a huge reward as the pressure is removed. When it is time to ask for it all, the horse will do it willingly and with try, and again I turn and walk away. A human fussing over a horse is not horse lingo. Just for fun, try not talking to your horse because when we do most of what is hears is just noise.
    Haahahaha really? Isn't that supposed to be something people do for "joining up"? So it's a reward? LOL!?
         
        10-11-2013, 09:44 AM
      #35
    Trained
    "I find it unusual that any horse that's 'bonded' to a person wouldn't respond to verbal praise as positive reinforcement"

    Well, I think Mia likes me well enough, but saying, "You're a good girl" to her is not a very strong positive reinforcement. She responds well to soft tones when she is nervous, but saying "Good girl" when she stops well probably has about 1% of the effect that 60 seconds of rest has. Maybe if I learned how to say it in Arabic...
         
        10-11-2013, 09:58 AM
      #36
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CRK    
    Negative reinforcement is something that the horse moves away from, positive reinforcement is something the horse moves toward. Neither is inherently bad or good, its how each is used.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Cherie    
    I completely disagree with how you define positive and negative reinforcement.
    The above definition of positive and negative reinforcement is a technical, scientific definition. This is how "reinforcement" is defined by B.F. Skinner of behavioral or learning theory psychology.

    Disagreeing with it is like disagreeing with Galileo's definition of gravity. Well, may be not quite, but... :)
         
        10-11-2013, 10:24 AM
      #37
    Started
    Quote:
    The above definition of positive and negative reinforcement is a technical, scientific definition. This is how "reinforcement" is defined by B.F. Skinner of behavioral or learning theory psychology.

    Disagreeing with it is like disagreeing with Galileo's definition of gravity. Well, may be not quite, but... :)
    well then, I'm moving into the negative camp for good. To me it should be a wrong decision/serious mistake has negative consequences, a right decision has a reward. In the case of a horse, refusing to go forward out of laziness or disrespect may get them a swap with my crop(negative), while going forward when asked will result in an immediate release of pressure(reward, possitive)

    Its only when the possitive and negative(by my definition, not the non applicable one above) get unballanced that you have problems.
    bsms and onuilmar like this.
         
        10-11-2013, 10:27 AM
      #38
    Green Broke
    I don't have really have anything to add other than at least in my area, it seems more common to see a spoiled disrespectful horse versus an abused one. Very few of the problem horses I've been around are truly acting out of fear, most are just being horses and trying to establish themselves above you in the pecking order.
    COWCHICK77, Cherie and EmilyJoy like this.
         
        10-11-2013, 12:34 PM
      #39
    CRK
    Foal
    I just wanted to thank everyone for their feedback on this, whether you agreed or disagreed! Before I put this on on my blog, I went through and rewrote the article in an attempt to make it more objective and better convey my intent. You helped me realize which parts were truly my personal opinions (us horse people can have such strong opinions) and only made people defensive, and also to cite my writing better so it doesn't look like I am trying to claim the credit for all of these ideas as my own! Thanks again!
         
        10-11-2013, 06:30 PM
      #40
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by onuilmar    
    The above definition of positive and negative reinforcement is a technical, scientific definition. This is how "reinforcement" is defined by B.F. Skinner of behavioral or learning theory psychology.
    Disagreeing with it is like disagreeing with Galileo's definition of gravity. Well, may be not quite, but... :)
    negative reinforcement is not "something that the horse moves away from" and positive reinforcement is not "something the horse moves toward".
    Cherie likes this.
         

    Tags
    horse training, how to train horses, positive reinforcement

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