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Just acquired a never been outside 'failed' show horse to be a trail/pleasure

7K views 50 replies 23 participants last post by  alsosusieq2 
#1 ·
Hello
I just acquired a wonderful 4 year old arabian/saddlebred gelding. He's a 'failed' show horse. The original owner sunk about 80 grand into his training and he just hated showing and would spook at something at least every time in the arena. He is reactive. His original owner just wanted to get rid of him/put him down so he wouldn't suffer and she didn't want to 'waste' anymore money with him. So I stepped in to take him.

I took him outside for the first time yesterday. He's been cooped up in a stall for at least a week, I don't know the last time he was even lunged, he immediately went into lunge while on a lead, he had so much energy, so I bought a lunge line and when his show package is off his feet we're going to lunge him.

He's very reactive, but also very well trained, so he spooks quite a bit but he remains somewhat in control. He doesn't try to take off, but he does scare rather easily. I think he is a wonderful animal, he's got great ground manners, and I think he's got a ton of pent up energy and a ton of potential.

I used to work with off the track arabian for endurance racing but I've never had a horse that I have had to retrain to even be comfortable riding outside, he's never even been to pasture.

I'm just looking for simple, from the ground up exercises I can do with him besides just walking him around and letting him get used to being outside. I'm going to hold off on riding him outside until he is comfortable. He does not like being indoors and they don't have an indoor area where he's being boarded so unfortunately my options are a bit limited.

Any advice is appreciated. :runninghorse2:
 
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#3 ·
First, I’m glad the old owner gave up and you got him. I think you are going to do right by him.

Second, 80k on training is either a very expensive trainer or that is a lot of “push” on such a young horse.

Thirdly, my initial goal before attempting to deal with his spookiness would be to acclimate him to a pasture and a life as part of a herd. Let him get comfortable with learning to be a horse before adding anything else to his plate.
 
#5 ·
Good luck!

I took on an over reactive Arab, who had flunked out of a show program, when she failed to place in a class of 1, they decided that they were done with her.

First thing we did was just get her used to being a horse again, hanging out in a dry lot, then in a dirt pasture with one old mare for comapny, then eventually full turn out in my herd. During this time, apart from catching her up, grooming her and the very basics of leading I didn't do much.

I realized how big the task was going to be when I took her for a walk and there was a small branch on the floor, I led her over it and one foot touched it, and you would have thought that the world was going to end, it took me 20 mins, just to get her to walk quietly over this stick!

Lots of walking, lost of time spent just hanging out, then lunging, a little, then lunging with 2 reins then long lining, and that is where we started to make progress, she came on in leaps and bounds, rather than reacting with leaps and bounds, and was getting brave about being out and about.

Under saddle we did not do so well, and that is a reflection on me, as well as the treatment that she had had, if you did anything at all that worried her, she would get light on the front, she was just worried the whole time. I eventually sent her out for training, 2 trainers worked with her, the first one could make nothing of her, bad choice on my part, the second one did well. She has eventually gone to be a trail horse for someone, but last I heard she is still spooky and reactive, sadly for some horses once you fry their brain, you can never get them back to a happy place.

Again good luck.
 
#6 ·
What I would do, Put him out on a pasture, with other horses, for at least a month. Don't mess with him other than catching, grooming and leading every once in a while. Let him "come down" from being in such a high stress environment. When I do tb rehab, I give them anywhere from 30 days to six months of just being a horse. Helps to rewire their brain a bit (and in your case may help with the spooking just being outside)

After he's had a vacation, bring him in and start from scratch. Leading, yielding, lunging for a week or two, then lunging under saddle for a week, then walking and trotting under saddle for a while (which would be best to do on trails you know well, since that's what your planning on him doing long term) they can be good long rides, the wet saddle pads won't hurt. Then move it up to cantering. At the least it will take two months, how much more depends on the horse and your comfort level.

I'm glad you took this horse in, sounds to me like he needed you :)
 
#7 ·
I've had a few of those come here. I started with turnout in a small area next to other horses. Even those with big shoes were fine there.
You may find that once the shoes are off there may be horrible white line disease. I've only had 1 that didn't have WLD. After clearing up the WLD I introduced them to the herd 1 at a time, same as you would any new horse.

Try to let him figure out how to be a horse, let him make mistakes. These horses don't do well with Boot Camp type handling- at first. Don't react to his reactions too much. Remember he may be used to being all show & blow when taken from his stall as that was probably expected of him.
Being outside with other horses may give him his best training.
 
#9 ·
Turn him out for at least 2 or 3 months. He needs to be 'let down' just like a race horse. Then, train him just like you would an OTTB coming off of the track. He will lose weight and get pretty 'scruffy' at first but he needs to start from scratch. He will not be nearly so 'high' when he is less fit and he will start using his brain instead of being so reactive.
 
#10 ·
Agree on turning him out, letting him be a horse
80 grand in training, and then the horse flunking out, has me wondering about that trainer> Either that trainer was an idiot, or someone never told the owner that the horse was not worth sinking more money into. It's called, milking the owner!
Time will tell, starting from scratch, after the horse has been able to live like a horse
What kind of shoing does he have?. I would pull his shoes, give him a'normal trim, and turn him out with other horses
 
#11 ·
A little turn out time would be good. When you do start to work with him, I'd suggest using Clinton Anderson's method to get his attention on you and not at all the boogers! One of my Arab geldings (great dressage horse) is very reactive, but CA has helped in that department. Will you post some photos?
 
#12 ·
One of my OTTBs, the one I had gelded, was really great from the start, he would go anywhere do anything with a little bit of encouragement. He spent his baby years in a couple of paddocks, about 5 acres in all. He had never seen rough ground, or walked on a hill. For all that he would do anything I asked, he was never able to adjust his balance properly on a slippery clay surface on a hill. One time he even fell with me. He tried his heart out, but couldn't get good footing.

The point being, if you are turning your horse out for a while, if it is possible find a hill paddock because your boy may not have encountered a hill or rough ground either.
 
#15 ·
Oh no, that's something I never thought about, there was a hill we walked up the other day and he's very tall, he's got that long saddlebred neck and he pranced up this hill and looked down at me like 'did you see that!' The pasture he'll be in has a lot of hills and even some running water, so that'll help him loads.
 
#13 ·
I'm pretty lucky with his show package, he's only had them on for two weeks so hopefully I can just shoe him (I'd let him go barefoot, but I don't think he's ever been and its pretty moist where I live)

I am definitely going to give him a vacation, he 100% deserves one. This guy went from one trainer to another trying to work with him and finally this trainer just told the owner it wasn't worth it to sink any more money into him, the trainer was the one who finally decided to stop forcing this horse to do something that he just doesn't want to do. The owner apparently has an ungodly amount of money and he was an amazing prospect and she didn't want him to fail. So its understandable but i don't think he's hopeless. I think he'll always be a bit reactive but its way to early to make judgments.

I want to work with him a bit every day, even if its just leading him around, mostly so we can build up a bond, and also to make him more comfortable outdoors with me. I think the herd will teach him a lot, better than I could. I still want him to know he can trust me, but that does come with time. I don't think he's ever been around the same person for a long time.

Thank you guys so much for your input, its helped a lot. I'll probably be back with more questions as I get a better understanding of what this horse really needs.
 
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#16 ·
Have fun!

I love taking horses that were, or are, heavily competed and getting them out for aimless rides. Though the time isn't aimless at all. It lets them do some thinking on their own.

Reacting to uneven ground, going to the top of the next hill just to see what's there. Standing patiently (or not so patiently at first) while I study plants or assess remaining forage. It's so different for them.

It's fun to see them become more curious and relaxed. They must enjoy it, often after a few rides they resist going back to the barn. They do, since they are well mannered, but they sure aren't eager. A saddlebred trainer, a daughter showed with, used to have me take some of his show string out on neighboring trails. Water, mud, hills, they seemed interested in it all.
 
#17 ·
He's a bit overwhelmed by the outdoors, but he didn't freak out at the things you thought he would, a rabbit shots out right in front of us, nothing, not a twitch. He runs face first into a branch and THAT was really freaky but when I just showed him the branch, he ate it. Then there was the noise his hoof made when he stepped on a rock that scared him so bad he reared and then managed to slip in the grass. But he recovered so quickly and just settled in beside me. He's learning and I'm glad I get to be there.

Photos Please!!!!!!
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-pictures/my-rescued-saddlebred-arabian-701049/ this is my handsome boy
 
#18 ·
I rode quite a few horses like the one you've bought and the people who owned them probably spent easily as much as the seller you've bought from. If a horse looks the part and has the breeding and people have spent a ton of money just buying it then they keep hoping the light bulb will suddenly go on and a trainer or BO that's making money out of them is never going to advise to give up and sell
I second Dreamcatcher's suggestion for riding out with another horse that's really bold and sensible
Most of the horse's I've had that had never been outside of an arena were more over-excited and tense than they were fearful and the more you get them out there the less exciting it all becomes
The dislike of an indoor or an outdoor arena seems to come more from lack of work and real stimulation than anything else. Those horses are stabled 24/7 and don't get anything like enough exercise so they're a ticking time bomb underneath you
If your horse has never been in a real sized pasture or out with other horses before then be aware that they can have no social skills or well developed preservation instincts so tend to get themselves into a lot of trouble without even trying
 
#22 ·
Yeah, we're going to do a very slow introduction to the herd, he'll be in a separate pasture for a while until he gets used to everything and then we'll start a slow introduction. I think you're right about the being stabled, he was definitely worked a lot, but never anything more than putting him through show paces. So goal one is really just get him relaxed.

All good points on here - also, you are going to have to redesign his diet as part of the let-down process. Compared to what a trail horse is going to need, he's probably been on the dietary equivalent of rocket fuel - which could also contribute to the spookiness. I know many people use a magnesium supplement to help a very spooky, reactive horse.

Once he's had a chance to get used to a new diet, new surroundings, and integrate into a slower version of daily life, I'd make sure to work him with a very calm, very experienced horse when you first begin trail riding. As someone else said, you're going to have to go over his training and fill in the holes, which means starting him from the beginning.
I'm going to just treat it like I don't know much about his history and work from the ground up, I'm aware he's reactive but the calmer I am, the calmer he'll become. He's going to learn a very different way of life, that is to just be a horse. The food is going to be an interesting transition for him. He got to munch for a tiny second on clover and grass and he was just hooked so I'm sure he'll be fat and happy by the end of this summer.

Two words: TRAIL WALKS!!

I cannot say enough about just taking your horse for a walk along roads and trails. When I first got my current gelding, he had never been off the property he lived on in two years. He hadn't been out of his stall in over six months. Since he was an unbroke 2yo, I just started taking him on walks like I would a dog. He learned quickly to trust me and look to me for guidance when things got "scary." Anything that he "spooked" at, we investigated until they were commonplace and not "scary" anymore.

Now, he's good with dogs, trash cans (even in the wind), mailboxes (his favorite to investigate), bags/trash, cars, people, lawnmowers, all different kinds of terrain...and has been since the day he was put under saddle because for the first three or four months, all we did was go on walks and explore.
This is my initial plan. I want to lunge him outside and then walk him on the areas that I'll be riding so we learns to trust me and trust the area.

All great suggestions, I'm definitely going to keep referring to this thread for help. Thanks all!!
 
#19 ·
All good points on here - also, you are going to have to redesign his diet as part of the let-down process. Compared to what a trail horse is going to need, he's probably been on the dietary equivalent of rocket fuel - which could also contribute to the spookiness. I know many people use a magnesium supplement to help a very spooky, reactive horse.

Once he's had a chance to get used to a new diet, new surroundings, and integrate into a slower version of daily life, I'd make sure to work him with a very calm, very experienced horse when you first begin trail riding. As someone else said, you're going to have to go over his training and fill in the holes, which means starting him from the beginning.
 
#20 ·
Two words: TRAIL WALKS!!

I cannot say enough about just taking your horse for a walk along roads and trails. When I first got my current gelding, he had never been off the property he lived on in two years. He hadn't been out of his stall in over six months. Since he was an unbroke 2yo, I just started taking him on walks like I would a dog. He learned quickly to trust me and look to me for guidance when things got "scary." Anything that he "spooked" at, we investigated until they were commonplace and not "scary" anymore.

Now, he's good with dogs, trash cans (even in the wind), mailboxes (his favorite to investigate), bags/trash, cars, people, lawnmowers, all different kinds of terrain...and has been since the day he was put under saddle because for the first three or four months, all we did was go on walks and explore.
 
#21 ·
I would pull his shoes now. Don't see any reason to keep him shod because the ground it wet!
Yes, many trainers will continue to take money, training a horse they know is really going nowhere, but not the good ones, for several reasons.
They have enough horses to train, that they don't need to keep working with one that is proving to be a poor prospect, regardless of original perceived potential, plus, with any length of training, there is owner expectations of that trainer showing that horse. No trainer wants to ride a horse that will not make them look good-their business depends on it!
True, this horse has led a life that is not in line with producing a good minded horse, so hopefully will come around. I would keep in mind though, that perhaps a part of the failure just might be the horse.
 
#23 ·
At present high charging trainers with their own barns are in competition with others like them in the area all the time so no they won't give up on a horse until they know they've got another one to fill that space when it leaves and when you're charging a minimum of $2000 a month plus all the extras there actually aren't that many rushing in.
At the 'top' Arabian/part Arabian barn I rode at for a while the horse's that were stabled 24/7 (the shoeing style doesn't lend well to turnout) were only fed bran mash with a vitamin and mineral supplement. The stallions were the only stabled horses that were fed anything remotely 'rocket fuel'
 
#25 ·
Thanks for clearing that up, and good that the trainer was honest.
The horse might have made a show horse, but most likley not a rail horse, which I imagine the owner wanted
I could never have competed at the breed level on my reining bred mare in pleasure classes, but she sure could run a reining pattern!
I agree that a horse does not need to be a show horse, and if you can make this horse into a good trail horse, that will be positive
Having said that, while any horse can be trail ridden, not all horses are fun to trail ride, or make a great trail horse. Great trail horses often have the breeding to be so, just like for any other discipline,
It will be interesting as to how much of his re activeness, spookiness, was due to the way he was fed and managed, and how much is due to breeding
I have ridden quite a few different horses out on trail rides , and also with various types of horses, and even those trained, handled the same, do not turn out into the same level of a trail horse, simply due to innate disposition.
I wish you luck, and that he turns out to be agood horse for you!
 
#26 ·
Let him settle in, but at same time reinforce manners, leading, back from ground, moving on command as you work around him. You need to make sure that part of his training stays.

Also, depending on what they fed, he may be higher due to that.

Think you will have a very enjoyable trail horse here. Great breeds in this one.
 
#29 ·
Arabians are the 'go too' horse for endurance riders so I see no reason why they wouldn't be a great choice as a trail horse and the Saddlebreds are not that different to a TB in temperament and stamina. OK they might be 'hotter' than most so wouldn't suit a rider that likes a 'deadhead' but they'd have no problem with the workload.
 
#32 ·
Agree that Arabians are noted for being great endurance horses, and if you wish to do competitive trail rides, are an excellent choice.
However, if you want to just ride recreation ally, then a big difference
Does not mean you chose to ride a dead head, as a horse can certainly walk out, without at the same time, being one that is always on the muscle, spooking at every opportunity

Endurance riding , and type of horse, differs greatly from a good pleasure riding trail horse
 
#31 ·
My thought is this...He's only 4!!!! He's had a lot of stress for a kid. Down time, no hot feed, normal trim, and a lot of just plain basic care and handling.
This is my favorite cross and they DO make great trail horses. Mine doesn't mosey well but she loves going someplace. : )
 
#33 ·
As a side note, I just read my on line hoof magazine issue, which had an article on package shoing. It was in reference to Big Lick horses, so don't know how extreme it was was with this horse.
I was aware of soring and pressure shoing, but not really as to what was involved in 'package shoing. Pressure shoing can be hidden. Pictures of the damage done , and the extreme un natural shoing/angles/weight, made me sick, wondering how any farrier with any moral convictions could apply them !
I can't paste the link, as it is a paid subscription
Kuddos for rescuing him, and hope that shoing was not as extreme as used in the BIg Lick horses, and since he is young, no long term damage
 
#34 ·
I used to take a lot of Arabians and AQHA horses from the show ring to trails. Some were very difficult and some never made good trail horses. It had nothing to do with breed or hot feed or disposition. Some just were horrible in rough ground and terribly NOT sure-footed. A couple never got over being complete clutzes. They could stumble and nearly fall over a pebble.

I got in a gorgeous palomino 1/2 Arab that had been shown and was a Top Ten Halter Champion. She was very well-trained but was not making a rail horse to be shown at a high level. She was broke to death but had only been arena ridden. She was an Egyptian /AQHA cross -- 3/4 Arab, I believe. She just could not get sure-footed no matter what I did. She was unsafe enough that I ponied her a lot in very rough going, through sage brush (which almost always made them learn to look where their feet were) and up and down steep hills. She just did not get any better.

I finally sent her home to very un-happy owners -- who, of course, blamed me. I warned them that she was just not safe to ride except in an arena on groomed footing. Two months later they brought her back to me to doctor and breed to an Arabian I was standing at stud. She had fallen with their daughter, cut a knee wide open on a rock (that was very difficult to doctor and get healed) and had broken their daughter's arm -- requiring surgery.

The knee was sliced open into the joint. It finally healed up leaving a horrible scar. The daughter healed up OK. They never rode her again. Then, they had me find her a good trail horse and open show horse.

Hopefully, this horse will learn to be a good trail horse. Thankfully, most of them do. But, I always worry a lot more about them learning where to put their feet than having them be spooky or silly.
 
#35 ·
Considering that over 90% of the horses that been cup winners in the Tevis Trail challenge have been either Arabian or part bred Arabian they can't be that useless on their feet!!!
When I first got the Arabian that I had he'd fall over a matchstick but after less than 6 months he was as surefooted as a mountain goat, its a learning curve if they haven't ever had to think for themselves and if they've only ever been ridden on an arena surface its an even bigger one
The shoeing method used on Arabians/partbreds is no where near as extreme as that used on Big Lick horses
I had them put regular shoes on this horse instead of the one's seen in this cropped photo to see if she'd extend rather than so much knee action without them, she might have done eventually but I think needed more time than I had though I still sometimes regret not buying her
 

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#36 ·
I think you miss Cheri's point, Jaydee.
I am sure both her and I acknowledge the fact that Arabians dominate endurance riding, by far.
Cheri is talking about a show horse, kept in unnatural conditions, far as developing both a good foot, esp the back of the foot, as per Dr R Bowker, with that being compounded by not just shoing, but a type of shoing that compromises future soundeness.
Those Tevis winners are not raised in this manner (confined, never turned out , shod early), just area ridden
 
#41 ·
Cheri is talking about a show horse, kept in unnatural conditions...
Agree, most Arabs are very sure-footed, but taking a horse with no experience except for on flat, groomed ground onto trails can take some adapting. Like Cherie, I've seen some horses that could never figure out where to put their feet safely. An OTTB I knew had been stalled and only taken out on the track, then spent some time in groomed arenas. He would set his foot down and expect it to land flat, and if it didn't he would stumble. He became much more trustworthy over a few months but with several experienced riders taking him out, none of us felt safe galloping him on rough ground even after a couple years. He went to an owner that wanted a slower type trail horse.
 
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