Kicking, biting horse.
 
 

       The Horse Forum > Training Horses > Horse Training

Kicking, biting horse.

This is a discussion on Kicking, biting horse. within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Stallion biting himself
  • Horse biting kicking

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
    03-28-2010, 02:58 AM
  #1
Showing
Kicking, biting horse.

So last may I purchased a 10hh pony stallion (the sweetest little guy) and a Paint Clydesdale gelding from a guy with kidney failure who couldn't take care of his horses anymore. The horses didn't seem to have any vices, and my mom rode the Clydesdale while I was at my dad's and he did fine, except when my mom went to pick up Sundance, the Paint Clydesdale,'s back foot, he kicked at her. It wasn't a mean or aggressive kick, it just let her know he didn't want her back there. She got him to give her both his back feet anyway, and we brought both horses home to our Paso Fino gelding and mini mare. Soon after, Sundance started developing problems. Aggression problems....he kicked our farrier who we've been with for 20 years (hard) and then ran him over to get to the stall door, and my farrier swore he would never trim his feet again. He also kicked the next farrier we hired to work on him....he was an overconfident schmuk. And the next, who got three feet done, but at the fourth, got kicked, and we ran out of options: we had a trainer come. The guy was also a farrier, and he told us he wouldn't and had never left a house until the horse's problem was corrected. He stayed for a few hours here, becoming part of the herd, becoming the lead mare, etcetera, until he, and then we, were able to pick up his feet. He loved the trainer. This is the two of them:


(he looks so sweet and docile there.....)
We did the routine we were told to do with Sunny every night, like the trainer told us to, for a while until my mom snapped her Achilles Tendon in half and couldn't pick his feet anymore. I wasn't allowed to do it then because he was still "dangerous" and had started nipping at people. When we stopped picking his feet every day, he stopped being a good boy about it. When a different farrier came, he kicked him. And bit him. And now he bites whenever you're within biting range, runs you over when you go in the pasture with him, and makes you feel terrified when he bullies you around. I need to sell this horse.....he's not safe, especially with my 9-yr old sister playing in the yard by the pasture and getting too close and being bitten! I can't afford another $1000 to get him retrained, either, (that's the quote I was given by the Amish for full training on him) so I'm resorting to trying to sort him out myself. What do I do here? I'm at a loss and completely overwhelmed. I can't ride him now because of his behavior, so now he's a worthless eating machine in my barn. Can someone please tell me what to do? Any and all help appreciated. Thanks
     
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
    03-28-2010, 04:21 AM
  #2
Weanling
He sounds pretty dangerous..

I would be considering euthanasier at this stage.
     
    03-28-2010, 05:33 AM
  #3
Green Broke
Why not see if the trainer that got along with him wants him?
Then he could retrain and sell and get the money for it
     
    03-28-2010, 11:48 AM
  #4
Showing
I'm not putting him down. It's weird. At times he's the sweetest horse, lets you groom him over the stall door, my mom kisses him on his nose no matter how many times I tell her not to....But if you turn your back to him, he'll bite you. When we were grooming him in the pasture last year, he also leaned into us because he liked the grooming so much.....he was trying to get us to support his weight for him or something.

About the trainer.....we actually asked him if he would take Sundance home. He really wanted to, too, except his wife butted in that they had too many horses already and wouldn't let him.....lol.

Any ideas on why he's like this? Do you think he was like this at his breeder's home, too, or do you suspect he is just bad now? My reasoning is that since he's on the bottom of the totem pole for dominance here with my other horses (below my dominant Paso, below the pony stallion, even below the mini mare) he's feeling the need to make us feel inferior so he can make an illusion of dominance over himself. It's ridiculous that he lets the mini mare kick him out of her stall and corner of the pasture (we have one pasture with free access to their stalls, so they go in whichever stalls they choose), when he's 10 times bigger than her! He's huge!
     
    03-29-2010, 07:43 PM
  #5
Weanling
Have you tried bullying him back? I'm assuming you have, since you already had horses (and know how to deal with them), and it was to the point where you needed a trainer. If, after [trying to] show him that he can't touch you, and he STILL does that, I would probably sell him..
     
    03-29-2010, 07:44 PM
  #6
Weanling
He's a cute horse though.
     
    03-29-2010, 08:50 PM
  #7
Weanling
Hmmmmmm. What are you feeding him? Could he be hot from his feed? Could he have some sort of nitritional imbalance?

Heck, as I've mentioned in a lot of threads recently.... Have you considered something like mare magic or easy mare (safe for geldings)? I have seen it work famously with several horses to loosen them up, calm them down, etc. Mare magic is made if raspberry leaves, which has a high concentration of magnesium. Helps take the edge off, and most animals and humans are deficient. Worth a shot.

Another option is to section him off from everyone else. Ideally give him a paddock that is not connecting to the main area, but within eyeshot. With him separated, he'll come to learn really quick that he absolutely depends on you for everything.

Also... Work him. I don't know what your setup is, but you need to have some one on one time. If he's a bad biter, stick a muzzle or a grazing muzzle on him when you are close.. .

When he goes to bite, let him run directly into your elbow or knuckle. Get BIG, yell NO, back him up. I'd probably carry a dressage whip around him at all times.

Obviously if you are in danger get out if the way, but you need to stand up to him and let him know you are in charge.

Good luck. I hope you can figure something out. Reward the piss out of him when he does something right, and let him know when he's in the wrong.
Posted via Mobile Device
     
    03-29-2010, 10:16 PM
  #8
Showing
I have tried bullying him back. I have punched him after he bites, my dad has gone after him with a rake, and my mom screams at him, but when he gets threatened he pins his ears and threatens to bite again if you don't get out of the way. With the elbow thing....I've read that before, but you can't really do that and be consistent with it if you have your back to his stall on accident when he bites, which is usually the case.

We don't have a saddle big enough for him, we were planning on barebacking until we could buy a draft saddle, but then he got like this....I personally want to stick a bridle on him and ride him out bareback to show him what work is, but my mom won't let me. (overprotective mothers....she won't even let me ride the back 1000 if she's not with me lol) She doesn't have health insurance right now so she won't get up on him, but I do have it through my dad (divorced parents, dad's law firm provides health insurance for the family) and really want to ride him out. I have a draft bridle that's one of those halter/bridle combo things, and I have a one-eared show bridle from my MFT who was HUGE and had a huge head so that might fit him. No throatlatch, but I think that would be okay. If I did convince my mom to let me ride him, (and she has ridden him before--when we bought him. She said he was rusty but willing to learn) would I use a snaffle or a curb? I have a ton of excess bits. I'll try to post pics of my Western ones so HF can determine which one would work best for him.

With regard to the mare PMS supplements....Yes, I have tried that. I tried Mare Magic, and it worked to an extent, but it got really expencive so I had to drop it. I feed good quality hay and grain....he's fat so I don't give him that much grain and only 2-3 flakes of hay twice a day, but I feed Grow 'n Win (description on feed) grain to all my horses except my senior gelding who has Nutrena Equine Senior to help keep stress-induced weight on (he lost a lot of weight trying to keep the mare away from the other horses last year).

Anyway, do you think I'm right to push me riding him? I think it would do him some good. My bareback pad might fit him, but he's such a fatty from being idle that I doubt it would go around his girth.

If I section him off from everyone, that's not really possible with our pasture setup. Plus he neighs and paces the fence whenever I take Arthur for a ride....hates to be alone.

I really think he hates the cold weather, as silly as that sounds. His mood always downright sucks in winter, which is usually when I pull out the Mare Magic out and give him supplements of that at every feeding.

I can't lead him to the back pastures, he stays in the front pasture because he has NO ground manners and crowds you and bites and dances on the end of the lead and speeds up when you want him to walk with you, and ugh it's a nightmare. When we do take the horses to the back grassy pastures in summer (they have access from the stalls to the main dirt pasture, but in summer we take them all to the back pasture which is only like 200 meter away to graze every day), I have to bring the mare and the stallion to the pasture first (everyone gets along, surprisingly. The stallion knows his place and doesn't go near the mare or the other geldings because he knows he'll lose in a dominance battle against my gelding) and lock them in. Then I mount Arthur, my gelding, and set Sunny free. I herd him to the back pasture since he won't be ponied and lock them all in. But if I were to work with him, I would have to work with him in that pasture, and I'll have to work on ground manners with him so I can actually lead him back there.

When I get him back there, I think I'll try a join-up from Monty Roberts....I'm kind of worried to have him follow me, though, because he has a habit of walking on your heels and trust me, it hurts SO bad to have a 2,000 pound giant of a horse step on your toes lol! Then maybe I'll try lungeing him to get him to work a little. Any tips on lungeing, as I've never lunged before besides my mini mare, which doesn't really count since I can never get her lazy butt to lunge anyway?

Maybe I'll try sacking him out. That might help with the problem he has with his feet being touched. What the trainer did was use John Lyons techniques and take a long pole with a glove on the end and touch his feet with it so Sunny could kick the crap out of it and the "arm" wouldn't give up. I'm definitely getting him used to plastic and stuff on his back before I get on....if I ever get on.

Would it benefit him to be ponied? My gelding is a handful in himself because of his separation anxiety with the mini mare, so it would be difficult to pony him and control two misbehaving horses. I could do it though, and Arthur's separation anxiety might be partially cured for the time being if he had a buddy on the trails with him. You think? I think I'll try it.

I think the Amish could really get some use out of him as a plow horse in the fields. He's strong, and huge, and needs to learn the meaning of working for his feed.
     
    03-29-2010, 11:49 PM
  #9
Weanling
Holy crap. How much GrowNWin do you feed him per feeding? That stuff is 32% protein.... WAY too much for most horses to eat as their primary source of nutrition. That totally explains his picture. I'd bet my left foot that he has hyperthyroidism. What kind of hay do you feed? Is it partially or straight alfalfa??? I've used GrowNWin as a topper for some growing horses, usually just a cup or so of it on top of oats or something. Too much protien can turn a normal horse into a totally different animal. The extreme cresty neck, the grumpy/mean attitude..... definitely signs of hormonal issues from far too much protein.

I would completely eliminate the grain all together. You should see rapid changes in his body mass as he loses all of the water he's retaining right now. The extra protien is also directly related to thyroid, kidney, and liver function. Too much of it can put those organs into over drive, which could make just moving around painful. I wouldn't want to lift my feet if my kidneys hurt. 12% at most, really, is all a horse needs in protien daily.


Also, most of those ideas sound like things you could/should do with him. Work with him as much as you can. And for gosh sakes, don't stand in his stall with your back to him! You need to keep an eye on this horse every minute you are near him.
     
    03-30-2010, 02:15 AM
  #10
Showing
Wow that totally explains it! I was so caught up worrying about my senior gelding getting the perfect amount of protein and amino acids and and omega three fatty acids and stuff that I wasn't paying attention to the feed I'm giving my other horses! No wonder he's so fat! I only feed him about a cup at night, and no one gets grain in the morning--just hay. When I'm out of the Grow 'n Win and the Farmer's Exchange doesn't have any in stock for delivery back-ups or whatever, I feed them all the Nutrena Equine Senior feed. That's what they're getting right now....all of them.....and Sunny's still his usual bad self. 32% protein though?! I never knew that! What feed do you reccomend instead? It has to be versatile for my stally, my prego mare, and Sunny though. Any suggestions? My mare gets supplements too for mare and foal stuff so she doesn't need mare and foal feed. With regard to elimination....he gets really pissed when he doesn't get fed his grain. I eliminated morning grain for everyone because it's not doing anything for them; they're content to snack on hay throughout the day and have their hay and grain at night. Our hay is definitely not straight alfalfa....it's either Timothy or a mix, I can't remember. Wow, am I changing grain, if not eliminating it for Sunny....
     

Quick Reply
Please help keep the Horse Forum enjoyable by reporting rude posts.
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Horse Forum forums, you must first register.

Already have a Horse Forum account?
Members are allowed only one account per person at the Horse Forum, so if you've made an account here in the past you'll need to continue using that account. Please do not create a new account or you may lose access to the Horse Forum. If you need help recovering your existing account, please Contact Us. We'll be glad to help!

New to the Horse Forum?
Please choose a username you will be satisfied with using for the duration of your membership at the Horse Forum. We do not change members' usernames upon request because that would make it difficult for everyone to keep track of who is who on the forum. For that reason, please do not incorporate your horse's name into your username so that you are not stuck with a username related to a horse you may no longer have some day, or use any other username you may no longer identify with or care for in the future.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Old Thread Warning
This thread is more than 90 days old. When a thread is this old, it is often better to start a new thread rather than post to it. However, If you feel you have something of value to add to this particular thread, you can do so by checking the box below before submitting your post.

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help!! Striking, kicking - does my horse hate me? Shannym Horse Training 11 08-11-2010 10:02 PM
Horse biting Plains Drifter Horse Training 8 02-04-2010 07:58 PM
Biting Horse frecklesgirl4ever Horse Training 48 01-05-2010 01:11 PM
Horse developing kicking issue. JavaLover Horse Training 6 11-07-2009 08:51 PM
Horse keeps biting himself mbotwell Horse Health 4 09-27-2007 05:38 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0