The Horse Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

Laterial Work, Why & Teaching Sequence

2K views 20 replies 10 participants last post by  mobilenaturaltrainer 
#1 ·
Laterial Work it is important:

Through practice, all lateral exercises will become smooth and polished. They help to advance the horse physically and mentally to a higher level of riding. They help the horse to improve their responsiveness to the aids, and benefit the rider by improving co-ordination of the aids and can assist in improving the rider’s “feel”. Done correctly, the benefits obtained from lateral work will insure success in building a fantastic partnership with your horse!

The Lateral Movements - can be used to improve the horse in many ways:

1. They improve the horse’s agility and maneuverability.
2. They improve the horse’s attentiveness and responsiveness to the aids.
3. They improve the horse’s suppleness.
4. They improve the horse’s balance.
5. They improve the horse’s straightness.
6. They allow the rider to engage and bend each hind leg individually.
7. They unlock the horse’s hips due to the crossing and engaging of either the inside or the outside hind leg.
8. They unlock the horse’s abdominal muscles due to the required lateral bend of the horse’s spine.
9. They strengthen the muscles on the inside and outside of the hind legs and front legs.
10. They increase the horse’s shoulder freedom as a result of the increased engagement and flexion of the haunches (i.e. collection).

I teach lateral movements to a horse in a logical sequence. My progressive step to teaching a horse lateral movements are as follows:

During the Foundation of Ground Training; in addition to Desensitizing and Sensitizing I use a triad of exercises designed specifically for Ground Control. Ground Control exercises that parallel riding manoeuvres:

• Move over
• Turn on the Forehand
• Turn on the Haunches
• Roll Backs
• Untracking

From the Saddle...

I begin at the stop and ask the horse to move over...Then begin at the Walk only, at first!

• Turn on the forehand
• Leg yield back to the rail
• Leg yield facing the rails
• Leg yield facing into the arena
• Shoulder in
• Haunches in (Travers)
• Haunches out (Renvers)
• Half pass
• Turn on the haunches & Pirouettes

Notes:

Walk first... Then trot ! All lateral work is trained in the walk. This gives the horse (and the novice rider) a chance to work things through without speed. Also, by going in walk, we give the horse a chance to build up muscles without over taxing them. Each of these movements can successfully be done in walk and then later in trot. Half pass and pirouettes are also done in canter.

Don't lean out ! When riding lateral movements, it is critical that the rider never sit to the outside of the movement. Yet, this is one of the most common faults seen both in training and in competition. For example, when riding down the quarterline and leg yielding to the wall, leaning towards the wall is not going to help the horse at all. In fact, it will unbalance him, making the movement more difficult. Always sit straight or slightly to the inside. Never lean or sit to the outside.

Once your lateral work is coming along nicely, there are lots of new things to try with your horse. Think outside of the box and see what fun you can invent.

• Side pass
• Leg yielding into a jump
 
See less See more
#2 ·
why would you want to sit or lean slightly to the inside (something I tend to do naturally) when you want the horse to move under your weight? I mean, if you ask him to move left, laterally, but you are leaning or putting more weight on your right seatbone and stirrup, wont' it unbalance him more? he is being asked to move away from the weight that will tend to hold him back. horses, to stay balanced, would seem to want to stay right under the rider's weight, no?
 
#3 · (Edited)
How you help (or hinder) a horse with your body position depends a lot on what level you ride and how advanced you are in training a high level horse. Almost all riders help their horse more by staying as centered as possible and moving as little as possible on their horse's back. There are exceptions for those trying to do a particular advanced maneuver, particularly very quickly.

For instance, cutters sit on their OUTSIDE seat bone when turning hard and fast with a cow. They do not lean with their upper body, but put extra weight into their herd-side stirrup and seat.

Some reining trainers do the same thing when trying to speed up a horse's turn-around (spin) and rollback. Some horses also change leads better, especially in the early stages, when a trainer sits on the outside seat bone through a change.

These examples are relevant to high level movements done with speed, precision and quickness. Everything less than this is better done with a centered rider.

On a different note -- I do not teach anything but basic yielding on the ground. I would much rather teach lateral movements like leg yielding, turns on the forehand (which I hate), turns on the haunches, side-passing, etc. while mounted. I find that many lateral movements can be accomplished with a lot greater finesse when aids can be balanced by a rider being able to use both legs and not have all of the aid on one side or the other. I can much better control that a horse crosses over correctly in front, pivots on the correct hind foot, maintains correct head and neck position, etc when I am mounted.

I know the new-age gurus all try to teach everything from the ground. I think this is their way of teaching people with little or no riding skill to get their horse to move from pressure and to make them think they are successful at teaching their horse something. At the same time, you do not find successful high level trainers doing much ground work at all. I have yet to meet the high level dressage, reining or cutting trainer that starts any lateral movements from the ground. They all do everything horseback where they can balance out the aids and keep the horse centered. It just requires riding skill.

I really think a lot of ground work is just like using a round pen; It is much more for people than for horses and training advancement. It is all part of the new-age DIY horse training. I am not convinced that it actually does not become a crutch and really hinders real advancement in riding.

And Yes! Lateral control is very important from the beginning. Anything a person does on a horse from trail riding to any competition requires that a horse stays between the rider's legs and the rider's hands. The ONLY way a horse can be kept between a rider's legs and hands is for him to move away from leg pressure when asked. Commons faults like dropping a shoulder or shying away from something requires a horse to obey a rider's legs. Guiding (steering) correctly requires not only that a horse obeys the reins by turning his head, he must also follow his nose with his shoulders and the rest of his body. This requires staying between a rider's legs which requires lateral control. Lateral control is not just for lateral movements. It is absolutely necessary for ALL movement.

JMHO Cherie
 
#4 ·
I agree with the round penning being more for the human, but I do know some high level dressage trainers that will school lateral work on the ground with long lines, if the horse is recovering from an injury, or building back up to harder work. I think that does have its merits, but again, it's using a lot of the same riding commands and not really the same as working in a round pen. All the work is still taught under saddle by good riding and just schooled on the ground if there's some reason not to ride.

With the always walk first thing, I think a lot of lateral work is a lot easier to train at the trot first when you have momentum working in your favor. At the walk, it seems much easier for them to get behind your leg, over bend, etc. Just a thought.
 
#7 ·
First of all I disagree that the movements should be schooled extensively in walk. Especially before the horse has developed the ability to collect in the walk as it is such an easy gait to ruin.
As well these exercises must be performed correctly and in a gymnastic way to provide any benefit. One cannot simply move the shoulders in and then expect the horse to magically become supple. The rider must become educated on how to position and ride the hind leg to provide benefit. As well I also start walk turn on the haunches at the same time as shoulder in and travers. Shoulder fore in the canter also begins at this time. Then travers in canter and shoulder in in canter as well as a leg yield are introduced when renters and half pass become used in trot. Then the walk pirouette. Then the canter pirouette. Pirouettes are never performed in trot. Turns on the haunches may be done later in the piaffe.
The whole progression up to pirouettes in canter will take an experienced trainer and a talented horse around 2 years. Many of these movements should not be attempted without the horse being strong enough or the rider being educated enough to provide benefit and guard against injury.
I would not recommend a rider to follow this progression without a serious coach and the expectation that learning these movements correctly will take years. I would not go out and teach these to a horse in a week even myself, as it will simply confuse and likely injure the horse. These exercises must be slowly taught and developed.

But interesting nonetheless.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#13 ·
Anebel is there a book or are there books that explain this sequence and give more explanation? I never get taught like this when I manage to take lessons and its frustrating!
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#8 ·
Absolutely correct. The only lateral movement that is effectively taught at all 3 gaits early in a horse's training is the simple leg yield. From about the 2nd or 3rd ride on, I teach a horse to yield to my inside leg in order to ride deep into corners and to guide using a half circle and leg yield back to the rail or track. I find that teaching this very basic movement, not with perfection in mind, but to keep a horse from falling in or dropping a shoulder is much easier than correcting the problem later. Ridden correctly from day 1, most horses will never even try to cut a corner or drop a shoulder.

The trot (or jog on a western horse) is the most balanced gait any horse has and is by far, the best gait to start lateral work from. If barrel racers put more of this kind of foundation on their horses, we would not see as many falls or barrels knocked over.
 
#9 ·
Could you knowledgable riders address my question about the OP saying a slight lean to the inside is better? I don't think I was taught anything more than the goal of trying to stay centered . This s not to say that I actually DO that, because I think leaning slightly to the inside is one of my worst ingrained bad habits.
 
#10 ·
You need to be centered on the horse and moving with the direction of motion.

The rider should never lean, however the body needs to be positioned correctly. Usually this means the shoulders of the rider face in the direction the shoulders of the horse do and the hips are pointed with the horse's hips.
It can be useful to sit in the direction of motion such that the horse can follow the rider's weight - however any leaning of the body is not correct.

If you watched the CDP livestream, Axel Steiner had some great comments on this sort of thing, especially during the second section of the PSG.
 
#11 ·
I was never taught to do anything other than sit straight - the tendency to lean to the inside is I'm sure not deliberate but some sort of a sub conscious thing - that you're somehow moving the horse with your entire body - a bit like people who imitate the bend of the horses neck in collection with their own head/chin and neck.
Starting out at the walk does help a horse to have time to understand what's being asked of him when you're at the one step at a time stage and trying to get the general outline correct - also helps them to not get their legs tied up in a knot - but once they have the general idea then more forward impulsion helps drive the movement.
 
#12 ·
Almost all riders help their horse more by staying as centered as possible and moving as little as possible on their horse's back
This what I put in my first response. It pretty well addresses my thought on leaning in or out.

I consider it a serious riding fault for a rider to lean to either the inside or outside. When advanced riders help their horses it is not by leaning but by putting more weight into one stirrup or seat bone than the other. their upper body still needs to stay centered or the horse must compensate for it.
 
#15 ·
There is a big difference between a progression for training when an experience rider is doing it, when the rider is on their first trip through through the application of exercises.

Always wtC first, straight on, uses of corners (three active strides), and gradually applying circles (which go along with levels of lateral flexibility). Although the walk is the last gait to be collected, it is the easiest in which to teach the horse action of rider and reaction of horse. But if the rider is not allowing the bascule/telescoping of the balancing rod (aka neck) it is easily made lifeless/etc.

LY is questionable in traditional schools because there is no bend in it. Spiralling outward however, teaches the horse to react to the inside leg but with bend. The generally accepted progression of lateral work is si & r (because they control the shoulders..and hence straightness) before travers. But each exercise creates a different abductor/adductor action of hind and forelegs. So the exercises are used therapeutically as the horse's balance needs them. Shoulder in is developed through different degrees of control of the shoulders: i.e. shoulder fore=a step onto a 20m circle ridden straight ahead; shoulder in on three tracks=a step onto a 10m circle ridden straight ahead; shoulder in on four tracks=a step onto a 6-8m volte ridden straight ahead. So the bend increases the lateral flexibility. Of course, the exercises can also be ridden on circles as well.
 
#16 ·
JMO LY is a very important exercise to mobilize the hind leg and teach the horse to carry the weight on both hind legs.
While difficult to ride completely without bend, it is a great gymnastic exercise, even if it is not entirely classically correct.
Many times when the focus is only on the SF position the horse can become very "one-legged"...
 
#19 ·
There is a theory behind the application of lateral work: progressive degrees and types of bending. The only school that traditionally used LY (no bend/only flex at the atlas-axis) was the swedes, and more for rider's learning than for horses. It can be suppling but is NOT engaging, but there are downsides in t or c. In Germany it was used head to the wall for a few strides, got reactions to the leg, done, move on to an engaging exercise (which are part of a circle). Least we forget de la Guerinere took si off a circle to ride it on the long side, so initially the lateral exercises were part of circle work.

For in depth thoughts on the application of lateral work (or figures at all) read Seunig's Horsemanship, and Podhajsky as well. Look at what produces horses which are light and in self carriage, and why.

Circles are to create lateral flexibility, they also fill out the outside rein, and create axial rotation (better use of all the hind leg joints) with a swinging back. And over time they shorten the base of support by creating great flexion of all the hind leg joints.

Another great book for the layman is Nancy Nicholson's Biomechanics of Dressage Riding.
 
#20 ·
Leaning to the inside...and I'm asking here, not telling anyone anything:

I was taught your body remained upright and centered, kind of like this:



But a couple times a year, I ride our little mustang Cowboy. I'm 5'8", and Cowboy is 13.0 hands. I guess I'm around 33-34% of his weight, so I'm a LOT of weight compared to him and it is up high. He is a "short wheel-base" model horse, and he is quite happy to turn fast at a gallop. In those turns, I feel like I'm throwing him off balance just because it is so much weight so high above his center of gravity.

I've tried 2 things to compensate. One is putting my weight into my outside stirrup, so the sideways pull comes at saddle height. That seems to help. And it honestly seems to help if I lean in slightly just as I would on a motorcycle. I haven't ridden him in a year or so, but I'm thinking about having my Australian saddle adjusted to fit him and riding him at a walk & trot sometimes just to get him some exercise.

I'm not trying to high-jack the thread, but I've always wondered at the mechanics and physics of riders not leaning in slightly. After all, motorcycle riders lean...and yes, when I ride Cowboy, I kind of feel like the folks below :-p :

 
#21 ·
Well; I expected replies and surely did! There are many recipes to train a horse so I find some of the replies interesting and I am certainly not the greatest know it all. Please know that mostly I work with horses who were broke not trained and owned by riders with very little knowledge and experience. Safety for the horse and the rider are my major concerns.

These horse have behavior issues; so I teach the owners to get off the horse and do ground control exercises rather that argue with the horse in the saddle.

I was born and raised on a cattle ranch where we bred and trained our horses. I can honestly say the ground work was limited and the necessary lateral work we did in the saddle. So I know where Cherie is coming from.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top