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Laying Down while Tied up!

14K views 51 replies 21 participants last post by  MacabreMikolaj 
#1 ·
Hi there guys. I was wondering if any of you had any possible suggestions to a very bad habit and potentially serious issue that my horse has.
Long story...

My horse Socket is 13 years old. She's been tied up pretty much all her life without any problems. When we brought her home from the barn for the winter of '08, we decided not to tie her up at all so as not to put stress on her or her baby (she was pregnant at the time). We realize now that that was a terrible mistake.

We brought her back to the barn in the spring for a tune-up. It turned out that every time she was tied up, she would sit down, with all her weight against the tie, and pull. She broke loose every time. However, she only did this once the saddle was on and the girth was tightened.

Then one day, I had her tied to the hitching post outside. I decided to tie her there because I knew she couldn't break the hitching post, and plus I had a heavy duty halter on her. I knew it would work. I tightened the girth, stepped back, and the next thing I knew, she threw herself to the ground. She didn't even actually pull, she just slammed herself into the ground. It's terrible because there was so much strain on her neck against the tie. Then we had to cut her loose so she could get up without breaking her neck. Since then, the same scenario has happened several times. However, she ONLY does this once the saddle is on and the girth is done up. And, she doesn't do it once I've worked her in the round pen first. It seems like she only does it when she's got an extra spark of energy. But I don't want to have to work her every time before I ride for the rest of her life, especially since I ride almost every day.

I've thought of buying a pull back halter, but then I realized my horse was already used to a tonne of pressure on the poll, because she wears a crib collar. Plus, with Socket's temper, the pull back halter would only make her pull harder.

I want to be able to tack her up by myself without someone standing there holding her every single time I tack up/ride. Many horses have died by breaking their necks from pulling so hard or sitting down while tied up. I don't know what to do.

Are there any suggestions?
 
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#4 ·
I have no stall to put her in when she gets home from the barn. So sadly that's not an option. And no, I don't think it's a pain issue, because she doesn't do it if I've worked her first. And times when I haven't worked her, and just hopped right on, she rode just fine.
 
#5 ·
If the saddle is fitting well, and you can't find any tension or soreness in her back, then maybe try saddling her up in the round pen. This way, she can't go very far from you, but you don't have to risk tying her. I would start with that, and see how that goes.

Or tie her, and just tie it very very loose, so even if she were to sit down, it would not pull on her.

When she sits, I might suggest using a dressage whip or lunge whip and tap her lightly on the hind up to encourage her to stand back up.

I've never had to deal with an issue quite like this, but that is how I would approach the situation.

Just be sure that nothing is hurting her or making her uncomfortable first.
 
#7 ·
We start everyone being tied with a Blocker Tie ring. They are amazing things at teaching a horse to stand tied. I'm a full believer that they can teach any horse to stand tied.
If its not a physical thing like a sleep issue. Than I'm betting it would help.
I have a 3 year old who has fallen asleep and fell down, but thats not a training issue.
 
#8 ·
I agree with Vidaloco. As long as it isn't a heath/pain issue, give the Blocker tie ring a try.

I wasn't a believer at first, everything in me shrieked "GIMMICK! STAY AWAY!!" I actually got mine for trailering and tying to my trailer, a tiny, aluminum stock trailer that even my large ponies (Non-problem tie-ers, but I'm cautious, lol) could pull over if they got scared. They work wonders on problem horses, and are worth the peace of mind for quieter horses.
 
#9 ·
Teach her how to ground tie...end of story...

Or suck it up and do the ground work...it sounds like she actually needs it to stretch her back muscles; If she's not doing this pulling when you are doing the ground work, then it does sound related...
 
#10 ·
I have a gelding who has to be cinched very gently. He will laydown if I tighten it too fast or hard. I believe he is holding his breath to the extent he cannot move. Perhaps it's a nerve issue or some other physical problem. I do not tie this horse to saddle him. I do loop the lead around the post/rail several times so he doesn't think he's free, but he won't get into trouble if he falls. I also cannot back him directly after cinching up. I have to lead him foward first and walk him a lil bit, tighten a bit, walk again. With him I think it's the western cinch as he was trained HUS and prolly had more english work than western. Or maybe it's cuz he got pasture fat here and wasn't before. LOL Beats me, I just work with him.
 
#11 ·
We have a horse that does almost the same thing but she hasnt flung herself to the ground. We had no problems like that and we had a friend come out to the house and they tacked her up and we are guessing it hurt her because now we cant tie her to cinch her, you can cross tie her to groom and put the saddle on but when u go to tighten it up we put her on a lead rope and just hold the lead rope while i tighten after the initial tighten we can re-cross tie her and shes fine. There is a possibility that one time you hurt her accidentally or made her uncomfortable. (horses can be good at masking pain and uncomfortability) Thats what happened to our mare might give u some insight
 
#12 ·
I have often wondered what it is that causes this reaction, but I ALWAYS make it a rule of thumb to NEVER tighten the girth on any horse until they have had a chance to walk a bit first. The number of times that older or well-broke horses, who have never previously exhibited being cinchy, react so violently to the girth being tightened, really has me curious as to what exactly is the reasoning.

I have watched horses do exactly as you have described, as well as rear straight up or flip themselves over backwards. It often quickly becomes an issue for the horse to even see the saddle coming or lay down as the saddle is placed upon their back.

There was a horse at a show who was stabled across the aisle from my horse. They cinched the horse in the stall and as soon as he stepped out of his stall he laid down. Unfortunately, he was wearing shoes and the aisle was concrete. The poor horse could not get up! I pulled his saddle off and we put saddle pads under his hooves so he could get traction.

Since witnessing this issue with so many different horses, in many different circumstances, I simply will never tighten a girth before allowing the horse to walk first. This is a lesson I instill in each and every student of mine as well.
 
#13 ·
another question is does the horse seem to be fearful (the look in her eyes) or does it seem to be a defiance thing? If its a defiance thing i would have a crop with me and pop her on the butt as soon as she does it but if you cant tell...DONT DO THAT! You can cause more problems if it is done out of fear.
 
#14 ·
I also agree with Vidaloco. Learn to use the tie blocker if you must tie or ground tie if you don't. I ground tie when I'm tacking up at home but if I'm out on a trail ride, I take a tie blocker with me. My horses don't pull back but you never know what may cause them to do it that one time and end up with a wreck on your hands.
 
#15 ·
I also agree with Vidaloco. Learn to use the tie blocker if you must tie or ground tie if you don't. .
I can't imagine owning a horse that I can't tie up??? My guy spends too much time tied to the side of the trailer or to the hitching rail at home to not tie well.
If I had one that wouldn't tie I would use a rubber tube and tie him to some good solid object at the right height and walk away. if the horse wants to throw itself so be it.
A horse that won't tie is a menace and the blocker is just a cop out.
 
#21 · (Edited)
I started off using a tire innertube before I discovered the Blocker ties for TEACHING a horse to stand tied. Yes a $5-10 inner tube is cheaper, but I feel the Blocker is safer for teaching a young horse for the FIRST TIME

ETA- To Riosdad: A cop out? are you kidding? which is more of a cop out, tying a young inexperienced horse hard to a solid immovable object with the only relief a piece of rubber? or using the blocker and actually teaching your horse to not be afraid and to stand quietly while tied. I don't see your logic in saying the blocker, or any similar training method is wrong.
 
#22 ·
I started off using a tire innertube before I discovered the Blocker ties for TEACHING a horse to stand tied. Yes a $5-10 inner tube is cheaper, but I feel the Blocker is safer for teaching a young horse for the FIRST TIME

ETA- To Riosdad: A cop out? are you kidding? which is more of a cop out, tying a young inexperienced horse hard to a solid immovable object with the only relief a piece of rubber? or using the blocker and actually teaching your horse to not be afraid and to stand quietly while tied. I don't see your logic in saying the blocker, or any similar training method is wrong.
To use a blocker you always have to be present. YOu don;t walk away from the horse, you don't tie it to a trailer and crawl in the back of the truck. YOu don't leave the horse. You always have to be on guard. The horse learns by pulling he can back away from the tie position. He can gain space. How are you going to leave a blocker on the horse and leave him tied for the night while you sleep??
I have been training horses for over 50 years and I start half wild 4 year olds and never have I relied on anything but old fashion methods.
You want to train a horse to tie?? YOu tie him to something he can not move or break. I have broken half wild horses with a snubbing post in the middle of a round pen, this is old 1300 or so pound horses and they are broke that day, that hour to respect the post.
I have a horse now into 10 months of training and he gets tied all the time in strange places. Monday was a busy shopping maul. Friday it was beside a busy highway again in town., NO my guys tie hard and fast and I walk away and they can do as they please but when I return they will be there.
To teach a horse that he can gain ground by pulling only is fooling yourself into thinking that he is trained to tie anywhere without you being present.
Start right from the beginning and it is over with quickly. I remember my dad 50 years ago tying colts for the first time. He had a heavy halter, a big workhorse standing stall and he basically dragged a baby in there, tied him solid and handed me a twitch and said if he pulls back hit him on the rump. Those babies broke to tie that day, that hour and they never caused a problem about a simple tie.
 
#23 ·
I leave my mare tied in\on the trailer, or just to a blocker all the time. All you have to do is run the lead rope around the back and it locks it to keep it from being pulled through. You can either let the rope run through or lock it for a solid tie.
I had mine broke to stand tied in less than an hour when they were less than 1 year old with the blocker. All of my horses stand patiently tied with semi trucks camper and motorcycles wizzing by at 60 mph within just a few yards of them. I used the blocker on every one of them.
I think whatever method works is the best for you and yours. The blocker works for me, so I'm standing by my statements.
 
#24 ·
If the horses are good tiers then why bother with a blocker after the first training session. You use one all the time??? Why??
As for standing on the trailer? I unload the minute I get anywhere before I take care of anything for myself.
Before the blocker and I have never seen one horses were learning to tie all the time?? How is this possible if we didnt' have the blocker???

How did the cowboys, the pioneers do it,.. How about all the amish we have in our area?? Do you think they know about the blocker??? You see their horses tied at the markets, at church, at home depo, all over and they are tied solid, every one of them.
 
#25 ·
I've done something similar to Rio, with a very very heavy duty bungee (2" diam.) and block them in as well. They don't like the stretch of the rubber, and they quit pretty quickly. Now, before I had my bungee (and tying issues are not common for me to run into) there was a horse I worked with that sat down just like yours, during, or after saddling. Scared the crap out of his then noob owner. She freaked out, and didn't push him. I helped her the next time - I watched her saddle him while I stood to the side with my dressage whip. As soon as he started in I gave him a good whack on the ***. He jumped right back up, looked at me like 'what the hell???' and so far, he's never tried it again.
Try a few things. Something is bound to work.
 
#28 ·
Actually, I do leave my horses alone with the Blocker ring. They don't pull it through, and I feel a lot more confident that (Heaven forbid) if they do spook, they won't be injured, my equipment will be intact, and my trailer/fence will be upright when I come back. As far as in the trailer I like the idea that if (again, Heaven forbid) my horse went down in the trailer, he wouldn't be hanging by the rope, it would come with him and he would at least be safer.

It isn't about copping out, it's about teaching a problem/green horse, and peace or mind for a horse that knows the drill. My horses all tie solid, the Blocker is just my insurance policy.

As vidaloco said, though, it's all about what works for you. I know horses who regularly broke bungees and inner tubes, and after starting with the blocker are now gems to tie.
 
#30 ·
I guess I didn't really make myself clear. With my arab, I tie him, but ONLY while I am there and within sight, and I don't tack him up tied. AT home, we only have three tie spots and four horses, he is always ground tied at home. At shows, he is tied, but only while I can see him. We made yards for the the float to prevent having to tie him. Why do we avoid it so much?

He was tied in a rope halter to baling twine around a telegraph pole. He spooked at something and ran sideways, the twine didn't break, and he wrapped himself around the pole. The halter cut into his head, he couldn't breath, collapsed to his knees. I wasn't there, but dad had to cut the halter with a knife to get it off, and he had scars for a long time. It was a terrifying experience for him, and I don't see long term tying as important enough to traumatize me horse. He ground ties and we have yards; There is no point putting him through fear to make him a better tyer.
 
#31 ·
OMG :shock: Lucky he's still around. I see no reason to tie him if you don't have to.
I don't like walking off and leaving them unattended for long periods of time anyway. I'm a nervous horse mom :lol:
 
#33 ·
I will go on camping trips or 3 day endurance rides and my horses are tied the entire time except when under saddle. We use high line and rings that run along the high line , a clothes line so to speak and the horses each has a run of a area and they are quit content to spend the nights and parts of the day tied like this. I sleep soundly at night knowing my guy is on a high line.
Pens, hot wire get mowed down in a storm when horses stampede but every horse on a high line is still there after the others have cleaned out the camp. I have never known a horse to get hurt tied on a high line at any rides. As for twin we only use it to bale hay. It has no place on tying a horse. I have left my guy tied to the side of a trailer while at the beach and again he is fine.
The amish set up a roadside store near me and they arrive at about 7 in the morning, they tie the horses to the back of a wagon and at 7 at night they hitch them up and go home.. Those guys stand 12 hours in the same spot and seem to be ok.
I am not nervous about properly tying a horse and then leaving to go to the beach or run someplace. I just ask the people camping around me to keep an eye on the guys.
What difference does it make it a solidly tied horse tests with a pull? I am working a new guy and went to give him his first bath, He pulled back, jumped forward and stood for the bath. Every time I tie him I tie as if he will test it. Again if they test a solid tie and then just stand so what if they are tied properly??
If my guy would gain say 5 feet of rope from the blocker what is that showing him.
Bee stings, flying paper, firecrackers and anything else you can name will not harm him if he attempts a pull and gives up. Sure horses are spooked and will try but after a half hearted attempt they all stand quietly, the spook is gone by then.
I am NOT nervous around horses, tied horses and anything else.
Tying is nothing compared to some of the terrain I get my boy into and he has to listen exactly or we both can be killed. One side jump at the wrong time and both of us could easily die.
Again 50 plus years of experience here.
 
#34 · (Edited)
Like I said above, most horses I will trust to stand tied. My current main riding horse I have no problems with leaving tied, as I know what he will do in an emergency situation. My little arab? If he spooks and feels he is stuck he will struggle until either something breaks, or he is so exhausted he can't struggle anymore. That's not a situation I would like my horse to be in. I know it is a rare case, but it happened.

When I camp, my horses are yarded. Never had a problem with it, even through storms etc.

Twine is commonly accepted throughout OZ and promoted through Pony Club as a safe material to tie horses to, tying to a solid object is not encouraged. Twine is meant to break under large amounts of pressure, and mostly does, but asproved with my guy cannot be trusted 100%.

I have never used a high line, but it sounds like an altogether different situation than normal tying.

I have seen horses tied to 'supposedly' solid objects who are 'supposedly' good tyers, who freak out and end up running, dragging the 'solid' object behind and under their feet. There are a lot fo things that can go wrong with tying... All my horses learn to ground tie even if I don't always use it.
 
#35 ·
The problem with a solid post is the immense damage you are potentially doing to their necks. Yeah, it works great, and the cost is high if the horse blows a gasket. Maybe that's fine for people who don't mind broken necks and cut up horses, but I find it pretty senseless to promote that as the most sensible tying method. Vidaloco has presented a method that works just as well, with little to no risk of injury. Which makes a lot more sense considering the OP has ALREADY stated she had to cut her mare loose once from the solid post method.

That's fine if it works for you, and it's fine if it worked "back in the day", but there ARE safer and more sensible methods available now. I agree they may not work with a range raised Mustang, but that's not what we're dealing with here. Adapt the method to suit the horse, don't assume the same method is good for every horse.
 
#37 ·
If you rule out the possibility of an injury, try tying her to a hitching post with a very long rope so she's got room when she tries to lie down. as soon as she lies down, get a crop and smack her butt repeatedly until she gets up. My friend had a similar problem and after one time of me 'correcting' her, the mare hasnt done it once.
 
#42 ·
You can't just not tie your horse up. They need to know how.
 
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