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Laying A Horse Down *VIDS*

This is a discussion on Laying A Horse Down *VIDS* within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        01-20-2010, 01:11 AM
      #11
    Yearling
    With a young or new horse, I'll do JoinUp...but with my old mares, I can't remember the last time we did it because they don't test anymore. They just know. I see JoinUp as a training tool, not a daily or even weekly thing.

    Your suggestion is awesome, but in the round pen she's great with her verbal commands. She'll walk, trot, canter and easy is just to come down a gait, her whoa needs a little work though. In any case, off line she's golden...it was when I was leading her and asking these things that she was a bit of a cow about it. It was the same verbal commands, but something about walking at my shoulder instead of on my heels was just not catching on. Now she's doing all of these on a loose lead, at my shoulder, and turning on her fore/hind with just a touch and saying over.

    I'm not saying it's a magic cure for a pushy horse, but it's a darn good start. There's still ALOT of work that goes into the session both before and after it. If laying her down a couple times made NO difference in her, then I'd continue my search for the method that worked for her...in no way am I stuck on laying her down just because it's "cool". I'm actually hoping to try JoinUp in the round pen again in the near future...see if laying her down and giving her the concept was enough to make her understand what I'm asking when we're in the round pen. I'll keep her lunging time out in the yard on-line then.
         
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        01-20-2010, 01:29 AM
      #12
    Foal
    I've tried join up with my last horse, my current horse, and my mom's mare. None of them have ever done the licking and chewing. Brego is the best at it (my current horse). He was extremely naughty yesterday so I got T'ed off and kept him going and going and going. He knows the whole I get your butt moving and you ONLY come to me when I say you can and then following me around but it doesn't usually last. Yesterday it got to where his head was near the ground. No licking or chewing but close. It makes me wonder if all those horses Monty Roberts works with do that licking and chewing.

    Wow way to stick with her! She really is a fighter and for a horse this stubborn I think you're doing a good job and I would probably do it the same way myself.
         
        01-20-2010, 08:28 PM
      #13
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EveningShadows    
    With a young or new horse, I'll do JoinUp...but with my old mares, I can't remember the last time we did it because they don't test anymore. They just know. I see JoinUp as a training tool, not a daily or even weekly thing.

    Your suggestion is awesome, but in the round pen she's great with her verbal commands. She'll walk, trot, canter and easy is just to come down a gait, her whoa needs a little work though. In any case, off line she's golden...it was when I was leading her and asking these things that she was a bit of a cow about it. It was the same verbal commands, but something about walking at my shoulder instead of on my heels was just not catching on. Now she's doing all of these on a loose lead, at my shoulder, and turning on her fore/hind with just a touch and saying over.

    I'm not saying it's a magic cure for a pushy horse, but it's a darn good start. There's still ALOT of work that goes into the session both before and after it. If laying her down a couple times made NO difference in her, then I'd continue my search for the method that worked for her...in no way am I stuck on laying her down just because it's "cool". I'm actually hoping to try JoinUp in the round pen again in the near future...see if laying her down and giving her the concept was enough to make her understand what I'm asking when we're in the round pen. I'll keep her lunging time out in the yard on-line then.

    Hey, that's cool! I dig the alternative methods when they work! I'm glad she's respecting you!

    No worries, I didn't think you were just trying to be cool. :)
         
        01-20-2010, 11:30 PM
      #14
    Foal
    I hope you don't mind me taking this a little off topic. I just wanted to put in a word about join-up. How long does it usually take to complete? It obviously varies according to the horse and I'm assuming shortens with repetition, but on average? I usually turn out school horses before I ride them and will free lunge them with a lead rope if I feel they need to get out some energy. However, I never do it for very long, and have never had the horses actually lower their head and chew. Every horse I've free lunged, though, will come to me and follow.
         
        01-21-2010, 12:45 AM
      #15
    Yearling
    I don't mind at all, it's still on the main topic, which is Joining Up with your horse in all it's methods. I don't think it's fair to put a time limit on JoinUp. Or a frequency for that matter. For example, I had a Welsh Pony/Appy/Mustang filly that learned to JoinUp as a long yearling. I did roughly 20 sessions with her varying from 2 hours to 30 minutes. This was late in her yearling year and all of her 2 year old year. Now as a 5 year old, the girl I gave her to does JoinUp about once every 3-4 weeks, just to make sure the understanding of their bond is clear. Yes, this pony is an adored pet, a protected friend, a loved companion and an obedient mount...but she's still a snotty little Welsh Pony! LOL! That being said, that's what's so lovable about her. She WILL test you every now and again, see if you'll believe her if she pretends to have forgotten what leading properly is...now for this pony it takes about 5-10 minutes to have her fully JoinUp. I'm not going to cut us off at the 10 minute mark if she's not ready, but that's her average time. Repitition is key though - can't expect to get faster at understanding something that's never practised. That being said, I haven't Joined Up with my mom's 12 year old mare in YEARS so if the need arose, it would probably take her a little longer to remember what it was about.

    From what you've described with your school horses, I don't consider that JoinUp, although I do appreciate free/on-line lunging as a training tool as well. Each method has it's values. What you're doing is letting them blow off some steam before having to behave...even though they'll follow you after it, that doesn't mean that they see you as the "leader", doesn't mean they've made that connection. My yearlings were first to the gate, total pocket ponies BEFORE JoinUp just because they were attention hogs, loved being groomed, and just couldn't get enough of anything human. AFTER JoinUp they were the same curious attitude, but with some respect for personal space.

    The goal behind JoinUp is not just to get the horse to follow you around. It's to establish some dominance in the relationship and assert yourself as the horse's leader, to earn their trust, and gain their respect. In doing this, the horse will want to stay with their chosen "new leader", thus following. The licking and chewing is a natural response that the horse is listening and being submissive - asking to JoinUp.

    If anyone has anything to add to my description, please feel free...but that's how I've always understood JoinUp. There's obviously more to it, but it's late here and I work in the morning. Would love to see what other members can add.
         
        01-21-2010, 01:44 AM
      #16
    Foal
    Right, I never go into the process with the mindset of it being join-up. I've never actually consciously tried to do so. I understand the whole mental relationship it creates, establishing yourself as the alpha, etc.
    However, it almost seems as if the brief free lunging in the ring is acting inadvertently as what I'm hesitantly labeling as a partial join-up. After all, something mental must be going on in their head if they decide "Hey, I'm going to follow."
         
        01-21-2010, 03:36 PM
      #17
    Foal
    I think that get laying down to join up is a good idea, but I like the hybrid technique. No ropes. Have you heard of it?
         
        01-21-2010, 10:15 PM
      #18
    Yearling
    Do tell!
         
        01-22-2010, 04:42 PM
      #19
    Started
    What I would do is not be so sharp in your voice when you tell her "down" because some of the reason why she wasn't laying down is because she would get nervous. What I do when I do this is be very soothing and quiet with your voice to get the horse to relax and drop down. You get farther with honey than with vinegar :) Good job though
         
        01-25-2010, 02:14 PM
      #20
    Yearling
    K so update time - I'd laid Eve down 5 times and the last went the smoothest. Day before yesterday it was wet and kinda slick out so I figured I'd introduced the idea of JoinUp - time to see if she'd link in to the round pen. I tried JoinUp in the round pen and within 15 minutes she had her inside ear on me and was tipping her head in. Changed direction and she started lowering her head so at the first sight of licking I asked her to JoinUp and she stopped, looked at me, and Joined Up!!! YAY!!!

    I did the same thing yesterday and got the same result but a little quicker - much more lip action and I pushed a little more for the licking and chewing but the same result but with no hesitation before Joining Up.

    *does happy dance*

    My monster just needed and intro to what was expected of her apparently. Needless to say I'll not be laying her down more unless it's required...it was a training tool and it worked as such. It did it's part and now I'm doing mine to make the process less stressful and more beneficial for the both of us. Thanks for all the replies and advise!
         

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