Leaning on the bit - to the extreme - Page 11
 
 

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Leaning on the bit - to the extreme

This is a discussion on Leaning on the bit - to the extreme within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        03-30-2010, 09:07 PM
      #101
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mercedes    
    Kevin wrote: Rather than use a bigger bit or a martingale what I would try is pretending that you can only move one arm at a time. For the next two weeks ride her every day and don't pull on both reins at the same time EVER. Stop her with your seat or bend her to a stop. If she runs off, ride it untill you can slow her down or bend her to a stop. It will take far more effort for her to ignore your rein if you are only pulling on the corner of her mouth rather than the full width of it. Ride her for two weeks like that and then pick up both reins and I will bet that youare shocked at how soft she is. Then ride her for a month without picking up both reins and see where that gets you.

    As far as ground work goes, you have stated that she is really good but check her hindquarters and there is a good chance that you will find she isn't as organized as she should be.

    Now, how is that different then what I said?

    .
    I didn't pick a fight for 6 pages while saying it.
         
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        03-30-2010, 09:11 PM
      #102
    Green Broke


    It's ok everyone. People always mock me for my ridiculous ability to read faster then the speed of light and it's finally come in handy! Within 10 minutes I've managed to catch up, learn some new information AND have a good laugh!

    This post needs to be nominated for "Best All Rounder" of the year award

    Anyway, as for the reins, I never ever haul on both reins at the same time. I learned long ago that doesn't work. The only reason I'm working on some flexion when I ride is because without fiddling with the reins, she'll just stick her nose into the air and fight to trot off. I'm trying to give her something to think about by balancing with my outside rein and asking with my inside rein.

    Again, huge thanks and I'm hoping to get a video on Thursday (I have the day off work). Fingers crossed, I look forward to another 10 pages of people insulting the color of my pants and telling me I ride like Gumbi Srsly tho, you guys rock, excellent post and I'm definitely bookmarking this one!

    Essentially our last ride went exactly like this for some clarification:

    * Exit front yard on loose rein at brisk walk
    * Justus jogs to catch up, so Zierra takes off at fast trot
    * I gather my reins into a contact, she sticks her nose as high as it goes, inverting her back
    * I balance my outside rein, sponge with my inside rein until I'm jerking on my inside rein to make her focus
    * Her head comes down briefly, she tucks her chin to her chest, gapes her mouth and leans as hard as she can into the bit will fighting to move faster
    * I drop my contact to make her stop leaning, she immediately throws her nose in the air and tries to jog off
    * I get mad and shut her down hard, using a pulley rein. Zierra staggers on her haunches, nose straight up, and halts briefly
    * I offer a soft contact and Zierra immediately attempts moving out at a jog again, chin to chest, bracing with everything she has
    * My arms freaking hurt so I shut her down again, and make her circle

    Repeat that about four or five times and you essentially have our ride. Obviously I can outpower an itty bitty Arab, even with the softest snaffle available, but my arms should not hurt and my fingers should not ache after riding for a mile because of her fighting me. When she's flexing, she's bracing everything she has against the bit in an effort to surge forward. When she's got her nose in the air, she's uncontrollable unless I use a pulley rein and throw her into her haunches to make her re-focus. Anyone who has ridden an Arab knows exactly what I mean.

    As already stated, I will be riding her in her hackamore for her fitness in the next few weeks. She responds well to it, and right now training isn't a concern. Once her fitness level is back up and I have the front yard, we will then focus on her "re-bit-training".
         
        03-30-2010, 09:45 PM
      #103
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kevinshorses    
    I didn't pick a fight for 6 pages while saying it.
    I didn't actually pick a fight, but you've certainly been trying your darnedest today.
         
        03-30-2010, 09:58 PM
      #104
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacabreMikolaj    


    Anyway, as for the reins, I never ever haul on both reins at the same time. I learned long ago that doesn't work.
    * I gather my reins into a contact, she sticks her nose as high as it goes, inverting her back
    * I balance my outside rein, sponge with my inside rein until I'm jerking on my inside rein to make her focus
    * Her head comes down briefly, she tucks her chin to her chest, gapes her mouth and leans as hard as she can into the bit will fighting to move faster
    * I drop my contact to make her stop leaning, she immediately throws her nose in the air and tries to jog off
    * I get mad and shut her down hard, using a pulley rein. Zierra staggers on her haunches, nose straight up, and halts briefly
    * I offer a soft contact and Zierra immediately attempts moving out at a jog again, chin to chest, bracing with everything she has
    * My arms freaking hurt so I shut her down again, and make her circle
    Gumbi was a fine rider and I don't care what color your pants are. I bolded the parts in your description where you were pulling on both reins. Think about what happened before what happened, happened. You don't have to take my advice but I wanted to clarify that what you are doing is not what I was suggesting.
         
        03-30-2010, 10:07 PM
      #105
    Green Broke
    Ok kevinshorses, thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I think I get what you're saying, but how do you stop them from circling if you don't maintain at least a base contact on the outside rein to prevent the nose from going to your knee?
         
        03-30-2010, 10:28 PM
      #106
    Trained
    You don't pull on a rein if you don't want them to turn so if they pull around to your knee then that's okay. Sometimes you have to sacrifice going where you want to go to get the feel you need to get. When you can ride somewhere away from the road don't worry about what direction you end up going just worry about how you are going.
         
        03-30-2010, 10:29 PM
      #107
    Foal
    I have a 14 yr old QH I just got and he was pushing through the bit. My trainer thinks he had too many kids ride him and they don't release when the horse turns. He called it having no face. He tied one rein through the stirup and onto the back of the saddle with a quick release knot. Pulling the horse head in a turning position. The other rein just goes on the horn. Then he would chase him to make him turn in a circle (Its the only way he can go cause his head is turned) Let him stand there a while and think about it MAke him move again. Do this for about 10 to 15 min. Each side. After a few days of this he turns now with your finger tips.
         
        03-30-2010, 10:40 PM
      #108
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kevinshorses    
    You don't pull on a rein if you don't want them to turn so if they pull around to your knee then that's okay. Sometimes you have to sacrifice going where you want to go to get the feel you need to get. When you can ride somewhere away from the road don't worry about what direction you end up going just worry about how you are going.
    I'm taking Dressage lessons again and so the methods we are schooling in our lessons where Shay-la rides a mare much like Zierra (braces on the bit) are what I'm trying with my mare. My coach has essentially said that you need lateral flexion before you have vertical flexion, so I am trying to keep her nose tipped slightly to avoid allowing her to brace on both hands so easily. Maybe I am just trying to hard to implement methods that work on well-trained horses.
         
        03-30-2010, 10:46 PM
      #109
    Trained
    If you keep yourself from pulling on two reins at a time then you are esscentially using lateral flexion to stop and turn and position your horse. I didn't make this up I learned it from a very good horseman here locally. He trains reining and reined cowhorses and that's how he starts all his young horses. Give it a try and you will be shocked at how your horse responds.
         
        03-30-2010, 10:55 PM
      #110
    Green Broke
    I agree with what Kevin is advising, except(or, to add, really), the horse does not need to turn with just rein pressure. Sure, if she turns at least she is not going forward, and in the beginning this is great, but after you stop her moving forward, you want to stop her moving altogether, baby steps.

    She should give to you laterally without turning, pretty much JUST bending her neck, this will help keep her from throwing her self 100% into bracing against you.

    Flex her laterally(with just your rein, no seat or body) and ask for a whoa with the rest of your body, she can't throw her head as easily from a lateral flexed angle, she has built all her muscle into bracing vertically and pushing her face down and out and up to avoid, so you can catch her unawares and prevent the brace by asking for her to transition down and woah in a different way just by laterally flexing her.

    Make sure she will easily and willingly flex her neck on the ground, at a standstill under saddle, and going calmly before you try to do this when she is throwing a fit.
         

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