Leaning on the bit - to the extreme - Page 3
 
 

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Leaning on the bit - to the extreme

This is a discussion on Leaning on the bit - to the extreme within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        03-29-2010, 07:00 AM
      #21
    Trained
    She pulls. You drop your reins. Let her fall on her head it'll teach her a good lesson. As Mercedes said, she can't pull against nothing ;)

    If she goes to take off, spin her with one rein, take hold and yank it to you chest and run her in a circle until she calms down. Then ask again with no rein. Takes off, spin her. Give her a disincentive to run on you.

    You could go the other way if you're brave enough and if she wants to take off, let her. Kick her in the guts and run her flat out till she's pooped, then ask her to come back to walk and if she doesn't come back, kick her and run her again. She'll realise that when she takes to option to walk, life is a lot more comfortable.

    Just a different way of thinking about it rather than leaping straight at saying throw a martingale on her... as this will not really alleviate the problem, you will still be pulling against her which will still give her something to lean against, obviously.

    Particularly if you've put her in draw reins and she's learnt to suck back to evade. That is a hell of a problem to resolve if she gets into that habit so I would definitely stay away from anything that is intended to 'get/keep her head down'.
         
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        03-29-2010, 07:29 AM
      #22
    Green Broke
    The only problem with that Kayty is that the horse is recovering from injury. Everyone posted the martingale and stronger bit as strictly temporary until the mare gains enough fitness to really be worked like you suggest.
         
        03-29-2010, 09:57 AM
      #23
    Banned
    This is an arab mare. Not a big horse. She is ridden in a french link snaffle and she is uncontrolable?? I seem to have that straight?

    How hard can she possibley be?? Get that french link out of her, I much prefer a straight solid mouth piece and a running martingale. The martingale does nothing UNTIL she throws her head up and tried to escape the bit through hi headedness. Unless you have tried on don't knock it until you have. The running martingale does nothing unless it is needed and then suddenly the martingale doubles the force of the pull giving you a big advantage.
    Neck is the curb bit like I already suggested. The horse can not escape by lifting her head. The curb strap makes sure of that.

    These problems stem in the beginning by no respect for the bit. A horse needs to respect the bit, teach her respect and if you have to hurt her to get respect so be it.
    These problems do not exist in my world because I don't let them escilate to that point. The minute I see a horse disrespecting the bit I teach it respect.
    You do not keep a horse light, respectfull by riding all the time in the gentlest bit you can find. Even the best trained horses need tune ups a regular intervals.
    If that mare were to lean on me with say the STRIAGHT solid snaffle I AND a running martingale I would hit her with everything I had in my legs, my back my arms and set her right back on her haunches, yell at her and then quickly release. She would learn respect, learn not to lean of me, learn not to run through anything I am riding in.

    I love riding horses like this, one time only but I love teaching manners.
    She is little, you can overpower her with a little help.
    Teach her respect.
         
        03-29-2010, 10:25 AM
      #24
    Banned
    Seems to me if there is that much worry over the injured leg, the horse shouldn't be ridden in the first place.

    Either the leg is healed or it's not. If it's not, get off her. If it is, then start training her. As I understand it, this is not a 'new' problem, but an old one that has been aggravated by time off and a horse who's energetic and enthusiastic to get back at it.

    You don't have to run her into the ground, but if a little trot or canter is going to risk the leg...um...yeah, get off her.

    I also understand footing is an issue. Again, if that's a problem, then simply wait another week or two or whatever until the footing is appropriate. All this does is give the leg more time to heal.

    Temporary has a way of becoming permanent, especially when that temporary solution compounds the original issue by increasing bracing and evasion, and building inverted muscling.
         
        03-29-2010, 10:27 AM
      #25
    Banned
    RiosDad - *le sigh*
         
        03-29-2010, 10:31 AM
      #26
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mercedes    
    RiosDad - *le sigh*
    I know a big SIGH but I run into crap like this all the time.. People who just can't hand a problem and are ready to sell. I get on a problem horse and it goes away for me right then. Honestly these problems don't exist on any of my horses. Sigh all you want. If I could get on her she would behave in short order and I do have soft soft hands until the occassion arrises that I am not so soft.
         
        03-29-2010, 10:34 AM
      #27
    Yearling
    I disagree. I would never put a horse that had been off for any length of time "straight back into training". And if she does pick a fight about the head and does a million circles, makes her run it out, let her fall on her face in a loose rein, etc she's just asking for another injury because the horse isn't FIT enough in general to perform these things. I think the leg might not be 100% but I think she knows enough to know when it is ok to ride and when not. That being said it would be easy to injure the horse in some other way by jumping in with both feet. Half the battle is probably the amount of energy and the lack of condition. You can't take an unfit horse that has been confined and expect them to be light and perfect when you get back on them. That being said, I think she does need to address the issue since it appears to always be lurking no matter what. I just don't think right now when the horse is out of shape, recovering from injury and the ground/footing is bad that she should use some of the more elaborate and stressful techniques. There is nothing wrong with using a different bit temporarily to leg her up and then switching back to the snaffle and forcing the issue in that. And maybe the snaffle is just too light of a bit for her. Maybe she is just a horse that needs a little bigger bit. A loose ring french link is just inviting a horse to lean because it makes it practically easier to lean on it than it does to give to it. Once you get your horse light in another bit you can switch back to the french link and see. If your horse goes great in one bit and leans on the french link still then maybe it's just not the right bit for them. There is a reason there are so many different types of snaffles and bits. Not one bit works for every horse.
         
        03-29-2010, 12:39 PM
      #28
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RiosDad    
    I know a big SIGH but I run into crap like this all the time.. People who just can't hand a problem and are ready to sell. I get on a problem horse and it goes away for me right then. Honestly these problems don't exist on any of my horses. Sigh all you want. If I could get on her she would behave in short order and I do have soft soft hands until the occassion arrises that I am not so soft.
    So, let them sell. 'This' isn't training. It's called put something that'll create a whole lot of pain in the mouth and then yank your hardest until the horse is so afraid of the hand that they tie themselves up in a pretzel trying to figure out a way to evade the slightest contact.

    So yeah, I am going to sigh, because this will take me a year to fix in the horse, and I'll still have teach the person how to ride.
         
        03-29-2010, 12:47 PM
      #29
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mercedes    
    So, let them sell. 'This' isn't training. .
    If not training what is it?? I have fixed a number of horses for people with a problem and they end up keeping the horse. I promise that any horse I fix will not be sent to you for retraining.
    I don't have my horses mouth tied shut, I don't have any contact while riding, my reins droop and I don't have my legs on him trying to get him to work under himself.
    We both relax, enjoy the outing, enjoy the scenery and I escape into a dream world and just enjoy.
    At the same time he will be as light , as responsive, brave and as enjoyable to be around as anything you will create.
    One doesn't need to be so serious about riding, get out and enjoy.
         
        03-29-2010, 12:53 PM
      #30
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NittanyEquestrian    
    I disagree. I would never put a horse that had been off for any length of time "straight back into training".
    Okay, hold up. Just what kind of training do you think is being talked about? An hour of intense flatwork? A 10 mile gallop? Give me a break. Every time you get on a horse you're training it, good or bad.

    If the horse is sound, get on with it. That doesn't mean to work the horse beyond its current level of fitness. And I do agree a multitude of circles isn't where I'm headed...unless it's a 50m circle. All the training on this horse can be done at the walk for now...and probably should be since we have some very basic control and footing issues going on.

    If the horse isn't sound, then why are we even here?

    Quote:
    A loose ring french link is just inviting a horse to lean because it makes it practically easier to lean on it than it does to give to it.
    No it doesn't. More horses will lean on a snaffle then a french link because of the painful nutcracker effect.

    All she has to do is put the mare on the outside rein and ask for flexion with the inside rein. Do a bunch of easy suppling exercises, use groundpoles to distract the mare into watching where she's going...and walk.

    And if that's not working because the rider can't stop pulling on the horse's mouth and giving her something to lean on, then put the mare in longeing cavesson and longe her (not in tiny 20m/10m circles...but in straight lines, HUGE circles and sweeping lines).
         

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