Leaving a horse tied for hours? - Page 19 - The Horse Forum
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post #181 of 193 Old 04-01-2011, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Alwaysbehind View Post

This sounds like a very scary poor example of a hunter circuit.

I highly doubt they show at A rated hunter shows with out a good lead, if they do they are showing in the non-rated classes and still not placing well.

The ones I know that show A rated do fairly well.

I love the jab about all the horses that have a lead were formerly western horses.

Not a jab. Just a fact of what is around this area.

My old man was originally trained as a western horse. They backed him to start showing as a 2yo in western classes.
When I bought him at 5 he had no lead change. They actually had him so unbalanced from trying to get him to be a peanut roller that loping/cantering was next to impossible.
It took a full year to undo what those amazing western trainers had done to him.
Now, as an English hunter horse he has a lovely lead change and will stand tied to wherever I want to tie him all day long*. (Note, he did not come to me with tieing thing either. Something else us horrible English people taught him.)

Will not go into my opinion of WP horses or how they are trained.

It is hard for me to believe that someone with as much true knowledge as you have (reiner) would be pushing such a short sighted stereotype.
Not a stereotype. It is what I see after many many years shooting a lot of H/J and Dressage shows. Talking to the trainers and owners of the horses who are showing in these shows. I can not speak to shows in other areas of the country b/c there is no set association that I have seen that regulates these shows.

-I'm so busy... I don't know if I found a rope or lost my horse.
-An Armed Man is a Citizen an unarmed man is a subject.
-Where ever free speech is stifled Tyranny will reign.
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post #182 of 193 Old 04-01-2011, 05:59 PM
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It is the British / Aussie term for a trailer to haul horses. A truck is a lorie or some such thing
Yeah that's it :) but in NZ the truck is still a truck, actually I have to look twice when I hear someone say lorrie

-And as for the english vs western thing.. I ride english and still expect my horses to stand tied up properly when they get tied up. I don't just go out and hire a stall unless I'm not allowed to tie to the float (show ground rules)
-I also expect them to behave well for anybody who is near them, no exceptions, and big trouble if they misbehave.

R.I.P ~ Bubbles - 25yo tb mare - 13.04.2011 ~ 8:30am ~ passed away naturally and peacefully in my arms
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post #183 of 193 Old 04-01-2011, 08:27 PM
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I have a western horse and will be looking for an English horse as well. Every English horse i've ridden can stand tied and has a clean flying change and the young ones have a great simple change. My western horse can stand till the cows come home and I don't own cows. He also has a very nice flying change. People are people not English riders and Western riders, everyone does something wrong or something others consider wrong but to group those people into a stereotype those people is wrong.
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post #184 of 193 Old 04-01-2011, 09:03 PM
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nrha - I am curious as to what part of the country you're seeing this in; and what type of hunter shows. There are 'A' rated breed shows that are not actually USEF rated hunter shows but rated breed shows with hunter divisions and there are shows with unrated divisions or lower rated USEF divisions.

Now, my part of Virginia is considered hunter country, and some of the best rated hunter shows in the country are a couple of hours or less away - Warrenton, Upperville, Middleburg, Rosemount, Deep Run and the Washington International.

In years and years of hunter showing, I never saw anything like what you are describing. In our extremely local, informal Wednesday night schooling show series, I was shocked to be called back for a ribbon in a 3' class with a blown change/late change behind. So shocked I was loading the horse up when called. It must have been a really weak class.

So I really am curious as to where and when you're seeing an A-rated hunter division, not in a breed show, where a horse pins with blown changes or late changes, let alone crossfiring.
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post #185 of 193 Old 04-01-2011, 09:42 PM
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It is the jumpers in the H/J shows where I have seen the bad lead changes and the cross-firing, and they are not small shows. I have not ridden any hunter or jumper classes in 30 years and have not seen an A rated show in 10 -- there are only a couple in OKC and a couple in Tulsa that I even know of.

I watch a lot of the BIG international shows on HRTV. I watched a World Cup event last night -- held in France last winter, I believe. One of the the American horses cross-fired about 1/4 of the course. These are World class horses on 5' + courses. I used to go to the big A rated A to Z show in Phoenix every winter, the A rated shows in Salt Lake City and in Denver. I saw entire championship jumping classes where nearly every horse cross-fired at some point in their class.

Obviously, the hunter divisions of these H/J shows is not that way as it is judged rather than scored. I field hunted 30 and 40 years ago, did some point to points but rode mostly jumpers and then stopped showing and just sold started prospects. I started standing stallions and could not do both -- run a stallion station and be on the show circuit. I quit riding them, but I still like to watch them and critique what they are doing.
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post #186 of 193 Old 04-02-2011, 12:20 AM
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Thumbs up

I happen to be just another pro for a horse that can stand tied for a long time.

One of the greatest feelings in the world was the day my horse would stand ground tied while I danced and ran and acted like an idiot all over the 200 by 400 ft arena.
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post #187 of 193 Old 04-02-2011, 12:50 AM
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I am on Ohio and Mi area. There are several A rates shows and not breed shows. There is also the OHJA and the MHJA. A lot of the people who show in these classes are placing and do not have a lead change. Some are just really really nice jumpers and movers. One who does have a very very nice lead change is a Gypsy vanner and he does quite well at these shows. Not so much rated shows but the OHJA shows.

At one point for many years I was shooting about 50-60 shows a summer. Most H/J shows and Dressage shows. So I have seen a lot of horses over the years.

-I'm so busy... I don't know if I found a rope or lost my horse.
-An Armed Man is a Citizen an unarmed man is a subject.
-Where ever free speech is stifled Tyranny will reign.
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post #188 of 193 Old 04-02-2011, 12:53 AM
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Is it not weird to have a Gypsy Vanner at a H/J show?
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post #189 of 193 Old 04-02-2011, 01:42 AM
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Thats what I was thinking, TLO! i thought gypsies were a draft type horse..
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post #190 of 193 Old 04-02-2011, 07:51 AM
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That makes a little more sense. While I agree that incomplete changes and crossfiring indicate a poor foundation and poor schooling, in a jumper class, it has absolutely no effect on scoring. I'm surprised that a horse with incomplete changes or that cross fires is fast enough to place in a jumper class, but since the scoring is just on faults and time, the attitude may be if they're fast enough to win, who cares about going back and fixing the changes? Unfortunate, but probably the attitude.

Perhaps we're having a failure to communicate over the term hunter/jumper, which I've always disliked, and with separating the two very distinct disciplines? I'm talking about hunters over fences and on the flat, NOT jumpers.

nhra, I can only conclude from what you've said that either you're refering to jumpers, not hunters and/or that the OHJA and MHJA are not terribly competitive circuits.

A Gypsy Vanner pinning in a hunter class is a good indication that's the case. While technically a hunter can be any breed, Vanners are certainly not "to type" and do not have the style and way of going expected. I can't imagine one pinning in this area, no matter how cute a jumper, except perhaps in an unrated division like Schooling Hunter with a sympathetic judge.
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