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Long and Low

7K views 53 replies 16 participants last post by  tempest 
#1 · (Edited)
I need some advice here guys, i know how to get a horse long and low and how to work them that way, however retraining my standardbred we are having trouble here. He will not for the life of me bring his head down and stretch his neck at all. I sponge the reigns, i give him his head, i ask with some leg, i've even tried with NO reigns. All these methods, and still no long and low......so
HELP PLEASE?
what do i do to get him to put the beautiful head and neck down for me?

i mean....you could take a look at his conformation thread, but i see NO reason at all why this should be uncomfortable for him
http://www.horseforum.com/horse-riding-critique/conformation-critique-16519/#post173854


so help?
 
#2 ·
don't standardbreds normally keep their heads up because that's how they are suppposed to carry them when on the track? maybe I'm wrong though.

What I did with Sonny is I just let him have his head completely. My reins were EXTREMELY loose and he'd keep his head down . Once he was able to keep his neck down (not long and low...just keep it below his back level) I'd ask him to go from a walk to a canter (no trotting inbetween). Each time I did that he'd back to reach his back legs under and push off, getting himself collected. Then he just found it easier to carry himself from then on long and low...with his head on the vertical....as well as I could tell that is hehe.
 
#3 ·
youre not wrong. the standardbreds are meant to hold their heads high on the track to pull the harnesses and trot quickly

however i need to help him out of that old training. i dont think his conformation has anything to do with how he holds his head...at least that what it seems to me

I have tried even letting his reigns go but his head doesnt go down. I've tried light spongy contact....still no head down. Im not sure how to help him understand that i need him to stretch his neck and head out long and low. we have really good comunication but i just cant relay this to him. He doesnt want to bring it down. so thats where i need help. Im seeing him tmr so i need advice like ASAP =P lol

I'll definitely work on some serious transitions though to help him carry himself and collect. I can get that from him ...i just cant get that silly STB head down LOL
 
#4 ·
you don't want to force the head down by spounging the reins...that can actually be REALLY bad for their mouth if you do it too hard. You want him to lowr his head on his own...you want him to WANT to keep his head low

Insteadddd...what does your horse reallly like to do?
Just walk your horse around the arena with no contact (if possible...I don't know how your horse is). The minute he drops his neck...even an inch...reward with that thing that he really likes to do...or give him a treat....soon he'll realize that he will get rewarded for keeping his neck low and that it's a good thing.

Also, I wouldn't use tie-downs or anything to have him keep his head down, because that won't encourage him to do so
 
#5 ·
I think it would be more helpful to walk circles and serpentines to bend a lot on a very loose rein. Don't ask him to do anything with his head except to bend. You could also do some stretches on the ground to help stretch his back like carrot stretches and belly lifts. Once he figures out that going long and low is nice and ok then you might be able to start teaching him to stretch under saddle by lightly sponging the reins but not pulling or forcing his mouth. If hes calm enough I would also keep the cavesson 1-2 holes looser than fitted to encourage him to relax his jaw and play with the bit which will also help him relax.
 
#25 ·
I think it would be more helpful to walk circles and serpentines to bend a lot on a very loose rein. Don't ask him to do anything with his head except to bend. You could also do some stretches on the ground to help stretch his back like carrot stretches and belly lifts. Once he figures out that going long and low is nice and ok then you might be able to start teaching him to stretch under saddle by lightly sponging the reins but not pulling or forcing his mouth. If hes calm enough I would also keep the cavesson 1-2 holes looser than fitted to encourage him to relax his jaw and play with the bit which will also help him relax.


what is carrot stretches and belly lifts??
 
#6 ·
Well i tried completely dropping the reigns today. He's very well behaved so it wasnt a problem. But it didnt help get his head down at all LOL but however, i did go into the big pasture and did a LOT of serpentines and circles. I felt his neck fall down a few times and it was very nice i rewarded him. So i think we're just going to have to keep working at it and then we should get there. it was such a lovely ride too because i had so much open space to work with. We did circles, figure 8s, serpentines, it was all very awesome and we definitely made progress and i felt him flex and get a little more flexbile. It was very nice
 
#7 ·
equinangel... do you have any pics/video/advice of the correct long and long you are looking for? My new horse is doing the opposite of your horse, yesterday for the fist time he dropped his head very low and really curled his nose under during the canter. I'm trying to figure out what the proper form is so I know if he's too low and bent.
 
#8 ·
it will take him a LONG time to realize that that is what you want. Remember he was trained to keep his head up high and now you are telling him that's not the way you want it.
Give it a couple of months.
Reward him when he puts his neck down and make sure you give him a loose rein as that will encourage him to drop his neck
 
#9 ·
i've also had success by keeping the outside rein steady, then seriously asking/sponging the inside rein.

although it won't be impossible for him to do it, it will take a lot of muscle that he probably doesn't have, so i would suggest working on it at the walk a lot first. Just keep asking -- he'll figure it out. It took Boo a solid 3 months to understand that he didn't have to do the saddleseat thing anymore ;-)

How long has he been off the track?
 
#10 ·
Yes he definitely needs a lot of work on his topline =P He used to be emaciated so the muscleing he has is not a ton to be honest. I"ll have a new confo thread for him this week since he's seeing the vet and farrier tomorrow.

anyway...a vid of th elong and low im looking for...

or


now the vid above has the horse's nose in but what im focusing on is the neck position. It should be a little more down to stretch though. I just want him to be able to really stretch out at the walk at least..maybe the trot later. I feel like he really needs this so i can develope his topline with him. This vid
 
#14 ·
My horse has had a year off since the last time he raced. I'm probably rushing things a bit, but he goes into the canter very easily. 2 days ago when I cantered him he dropped his head really low and curled it. (just like you see the horses on the racetrack in early morning workouts.) He is beginning to pull a little more each day. So I figure it's probably something I'm doing wrong. When I give him a real loose rein (during circles at the walk) he his keeping his too low and relaxed. If I put more contact on the rein he tucks his head under.
 
#15 ·
Well if your horse is working long and low youre lucky at least to have that to start. Your next step is really to bring him up after the stretch. Dont try to pull his head up witht he reigns that will not helpy you. For this its all about your legs. Add alternating pressure based on the movement of his legs. This should engage his hind end well and geth im working into your hands...which if done properly, will establish a natural contact and proper frame (including headset)

Dont yank or pull....he'll tuck his head under to escape your hands....use a light contact on him. dropping your reigns will only tell him "yes .. continue" so dont let go like that either dear. Youll have to solve this problem without your hands!
 
#16 ·
Ok, I'll try intoducing more leg when he drops in neck down. He's pretty sensitive to the leg aids, he tends to think more leg means more "go". I can't really complain he is coming along nicely in such a short time. I need to learn more patience. Thinks for videos... they were helpful.
 
#17 ·
i havent read all the replies so i apologise if i repeat anything. ive had a few standies over the years and they all have the same problem. head held high and a waddle like trot/pace lol

first thing i would do is have his back checked. standies can be a little susceptible to back problems. my old standie had big issues keeping his head down so i got the chiro out to tweak him and now he is starting to more consistently bring his head down. for them its complete retraining. when they are in harness training they get in huge trouble if their heads are down or if they canter. its been ingrained in them that they must not do these things. breaking a life time of training is not easy however it is doable.

once you have ruled out any back problems or fixed any that there are i would suggest doing some lunge work with either side reins or a lunge training system. the lunge training systems especially teach them how to hold a correct frame without any rider interference. they are an amazing training tool.

then theres circles. 20m circles mainly in the trot while using inside leg and playing slightly with the inside rein. you dont want to yank in it but rather play with it as though you were doing a half halt but only with one rein. i hope that makes sense. i rarely get things to sound as good as they do in my head lol
 
#19 ·
then theres circles. 20m circles mainly in the trot while using inside leg and playing slightly with the inside rein. you dont want to yank in it but rather play with it as though you were doing a half halt but only with one rein. i hope that makes sense. i rarely get things to sound as good as they do in my head lol
Well im not sure what size we were working. BUT thats exactly what i do with him, inside leg..and what i like to call a "spongey" inside reign. It worked wonderfully yesterday
 
#18 ·
Well i had a SERIOUS BREAKTHROUGH!!!!

I was working some real figure 8s and then I was working him on circles in his own pasture. I worked him mainly on his stiffer side. I had him doing a LOT of circles on his stiff side. So he finallly was getting reeeally loose and supple and i was so proud. Then every few strides, he'd bow his head down...he started holding his neck a little lower. Not real long and low, but a much more relaxed extended posture. THen he finally started really dipping. He'd dip his head down and hold it for a few strides. He'd streeetch his nose out and flex his neck. It was so beautiful. Now he didnt hold it, but it was a great oppurtunity, he really improved his stride. I REWARDED him greatly every time he bowed and stretched his head. I was so proud of him. plus i took the opportunity to actually drop my stirrups on him for the firs time. It was beautiful. The trot was nice. and comfy. I loved it. He did so so well. So i rewarded him and made it very clear what i a good boy he was. I was so excited. We both made incredible progress yesterday (thursday) So i cant wait for saturday to work hard again :D
 
#21 ·
Lol i really am. I cant wait to get up there today and start working..i feel like that kind of breakthrough is great plus i made it very clear to him that i was proud of him for what he did. So yeah :D

Today we'll be doing lots of circles and no stirrup work
 
#23 ·
Ride in circles and the like, try to bend him with your legs and keep a firm but yielding contact on the outer rein (let him move his head about and don't get stiff, but don't let the rein flap since it'll give uncomfortable pulls in the bit). Make sure not to lean to any side and look straight in front of you. Turn your outer toes in (will make your knee and upper leg push his shoulder in, so he keeps it in place, the contact on the outer rein will make him turn instead of just overbending and walk forward).
Work in walk, that builds muscles.
Or try to move his butt sideways when you ride, a few steps.

What you need isn't that he lowers hids head, but thathe stops pushing so much forward, slows down and starts carrying upwards. Then his head will drop too.

I had the same problem with my standardbred. Now he's away to be trained by my instructor, but before that I at least got him to lower his head, even if we didn't get much collection :P I did as I wrote above... awfully hard to keep track of myself, my instructor had to remind me not to float away, turn my shoulders or head, drop the rein.. xD Constantly! But it worked and it worked as soon as I got most of the things right :P
 
#24 ·
Standardbreds aren't trained to keep their heads up in the air, that's the only way they can balance at such a speed. They usually wear a headcheck which is a thin bit that has straps that go from the bit through a loop over the crown and attach to a hook on the harness above their withers. Between the headcheck and leaning on the regular bit they are able to stand up when they are running.

Do a lot of circle, serpentines, leg yields, turning, spirals, and transitions with light contact to encourage your horse to work into the contact more.
 
#26 ·
If you tickle or put light pressure on your horse's abdomen (belly) he should lift it up in response. You start out doing it a few times for a few seconds and work your way up to longer times and more frequently. Carrot stretches are when you hold a carrot away from your horse (towards his shoulder, knee, saddle area, etc) and get your horse to stretch that way. Hold the stretch for about 30 seconds if your horse can. Start with small stretches and work your way up to longer and farther ones.
 
#27 ·
If you tickle or put light pressure on your horse's abdomen (belly) he should lift it up in response. You start out doing it a few times for a few seconds and work your way up to longer times and more frequently. Carrot stretches are when you hold a carrot away from your horse (towards his shoulder, knee, saddle area, etc) and get your horse to stretch that way. Hold the stretch for about 30 seconds if your horse can. Start with small stretches and work your way up to longer and farther ones.

oh ok. lol.. my horse and i have been doing carrot stretches and i didnt even know it.haha... is it okay to do about five carrot stretches on each side before a ride??
 
#30 ·
but would it be the same way for horses??? oh and i do leg stretches and i only hold them for 10 sec..lol..i never knew your suppose to hold them longer!thanks for the tip! i think ill start off slow with my baby!lol! only 3 times for 5-10sec and work our way up!
 
#31 ·
According to my trainer, the teachers in my highschool (riding highschool), physical therapist etc, they changed yhe 0 seconds rule some 20-30 years ago since they found out it was better with 3 times 10 seconds.
But as long as you stretch I guess it's better tha nothing..
 
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