This is Chances first day back with lunge reins, shes had them before but I never actually worked her in them.
You can see how she was extremely hallowed then SLOWLY :lol: stopped as we kept going. Its a start.
Every time I got her really trotting forward she would stop the second the camera came out.. and keeping her going.. holding camera, rope, and stick.. gets kinda hard :P But let me know what you think. Shes a lot more responsive, but she was having fun blowing me off knowing I didnt have all the mobility to get after her :P
Just remember its her first day back with them in quite a lone time.
I know its bits and pieces, but they say to warm your horse up before putting the lunge reins on, and stick with trotting/cantering while in them....the side reins affect the horses natural head movement at a walk. idk if you did that or not, and chance is just being pokey, but just an observation
She's not really collecting, she's just learning how to evade the pressure. I think the reins are too tight, you want her to come up into the bit, not travel behind it.
I'd put the camera on the arena wall or something stationary and lunge normal... ask her to move out some more.
Shes use to the parelli circle game, so getting her to move out right now is a challenge cause shes so use to being lazy. But I asked for more forward movement before I put the reins on so this is the best forward movement shes gotten since I stopped parelli.
I had it on holes 3 on outside and 4 on the inside so I could get some what of a bend from her.
Next time Ill get it on 2 and 3 and move her out a bit more and get a video. It was extremely challenging with the camera in hands, and she took advantage of that LOL!
Shes gotten very good a evading the bit. Doesn't really matter how loose or tight the reins are she knows how lol
No comments on the vid because I really don't know what true collection looks like either
But I'm curious, what do you call those reins you put on her? I looked at the thread and expected to see side reins but those are different. Do they have the same action as draw reins?
I'm seriously just curious. I've never seen those before!
Not meaning to burst your bubble but Chance was extremely hollow throughout the whole thing...I didn't see any time at all where she wasn't hollow.
True collection cannot come from using lunge reins as the power comes from the back reins...the "headset" comes after true collection is formed...and it's something that horse's do naturally when they are collected. :wink:
Not to burst your bubble but you must be looking at a different video than I am.
While the horse is not driving up it is NOT extremely hollow throughout the video. There is also nothing in the original post or any that followed that even mentioned collection so your assessment is off track.
I would ditch the vienna reins and use two lunge lines with one set in the normal way and the other around the outside of the horse, behind the rump then back to you. This allows you the influence of the second rein to drive and can be useful interchanging lunging with driving.
ok sorry you are right there was nothing on collection, but the horse is still hollow either way and unless she didn't add the ending (the "SLOWLY :lol: stopped as we kept going") there was no change in the back that I could see....if there was it wasn't that much
Shes so use to being lazy during the circle game, she needs to get use to actually moving those legs of hers.
And no, I never once mentioned collection. So you cant pin me on that one savvy. Is she hollow yes, shes gotten a really bad habit of just NOT using her back or core muscles which is the whole reason why im working her in these.
Ill try what you suggested Spyder I just gotta get a hold of what I need.
Also if I have to I can take some screen shots, there is SOME change in her back. Was she still hollow? Yes.. but there was some change.
And no, I never once mentioned collection. So you cant pin me on that one savvy. Is she hollow yes, shes gotten a really bad habit of just NOT using her back or core muscles which is the whole reason why im working her in these.
And I said, I did not see any changes....never said there wasn't but you said that she "stopped" being hollow (exact words), and in which case no she did not stop hollowing, she still was
Spyder, don't have a magnifying glass, can't see details on a picture barely the size of a quarter :wink:
And if you are saying Spyder that her horse isn't "hollow" then she either is swayed, but from other pictures that I've seen it does not appear to be like that, or she's extremely butt high....either way it's not good for the horse.
And that might be your saddle problem and the reason she hollows alot (according to you) while riding. If she is build downhill, or on the forehand, it makes the saddle slide forward...in which case a crooper will cover up the problem but that means you have to use it every single time until she learns how to bring her forehand up. I, like SpiritHorse, recommend the Theraflex Pad...to use shims in the front to build up so the saddle isn't downhill. You yourself will find a more comfortable position also and Chance will have the freedom and range to physically be able to bring her back and forehand up, which I don't see how she can do with that saddle on as it's right on her scapula
Trust me if I could get a theraflex pad I WOULD! I realllly need something because im desperate as far as saddleing goes.
Shes built down hill.. but uphill at the same time. And Chance deff isnt swayed like you said. I know shes hollowed how but 1/2 of it is also how shes built and how the saddle slipped so far forward made it worse. I think its cause shes so on the forehand. But I cant be riding with a saddle that far forward.. so If a crupper keeps it off her shoulders and her neck practically ill take it.
ANd ill admit sometimes I need to think my words through lol! I more ment it as she lesseed the amount of hollowness. It was still there just less. But she is butt high to.. im wondering if she still growing a bit shes 6... and a tb arab...how long do they grow? lol!
Try checking online and on craigslist and ebay. I have 2 theraflex pads (one for my english and one for my western) and I'd pay $2000 for them (though I think my fiance would leave me if I paid that much for one :lol...that's how much I think they are worth! it's made a huge difference in my mare's back, who is built downhill, and my gelding has better gaits with it.
I dunno if it's how she's built. Personally, I don't think build would make it look that hollow. I'd say get a chiropractor out and don't ride her until then....to me it doesn't look normal.
Balance saddles has a take off of the theraflex bad...not as nice but it's something. you need something to get that saddle off her withers and I think you'll find that she'll be much more likely to get off her forehand.
I've been looking. Havent checked craigslist yet.. forgot about that.
But see her back is more down hill anyways. So its 1/2 hollows 1/2 she just a weird back. I love how shes built in general but hate her back lol! Its given me such a hard time with saddles! Ive tried every gullet, and tried a crap load of lifters. *sigh*
Spyder im glad you see her as becoming a useful horse thats great to hear! I was getting worried about her back preventing her from doing stuff.
All parelli work is basically being dropped because I want to work chance correctly now and get some real muscle on her and get her working nicely Cause she has a lot of talent I want to bring out and get her going again.
Spyder im glad you see her as becoming a useful horse thats great to hear! I was getting worried about her back preventing her from doing stuff.
All parelli work is basically being dropped because I want to work chance correctly now and get some real muscle on her and get her working nicely Cause she has a lot of talent I want to bring out and get her going again.
Well just don't take the opinion that your horse is swayed backed because she is not. Conformation require an eye that recognizes backs that are influenced by the general conformation of the rest of the horse and too many people lump one fault with anything that does not match or come within the realm of their knowledge. The way this back is built is not uncommon with TB's and QHs and it can pose problems to fit a saddle but it is not sway backed, that is for sure.
Allison Finch has a good suggestion however a horse can be ruined using this method if the lunger is unsure with their hands and the reason a line around their butt is what I would suggest first. Her method also presumes the horse has impulsion already. A beginner driver holding both reins and a lung whip to induce forward motion may be too much to handle at this time.
I would use her method after the horse is supplying more natural impulsion.
I'm sorry, I'm just coming into this now, but what is the reasoning behind using the reins? I'm not aware of how your horse normally moves, which is why I'm asking. The only concern I have is that she seems to be generally laid back and low headed - by not driving her into the bit, you're allowing her to suck behind it and virtually defeating the purpose of the reins as a muscle builder. I don't see a hollow horse, it's actually quite hard for them to be hollow with their heads down, but her lack of impulsion tells me you need to work on making her move out before concentrating on her face. Trying to set her head is going to end badly if her engine isn't working in the back. I think she looks good, I just think it would work better if you took a step back, concentrated on making her actually move her butt on the lunge and then concentrated on working her back muscles. With this little impulsion, she's really not working those muscles well by having her head down anyway.
Beautiful girl, I think she'll learn fast anyway, and you're going great with her!
Well I was researching VLR's and I read that they help encourage the horse to round their backs etc. So I decided to give it a try. Which I TOTALLY forgot about actually getting her butt moving BEFORE the reins :P I jumped forward to fast. Oh well, it happens :P
So Ill take that step back and re introduce the reins later
I am not a fan of that lunging system. I can see a front leg getting tangled when the horse lowers their head. That would be a major crash.
I would like to see this horse in single side reins and I would like to see them moving much more forward. The horse is nowhere near tracking up. Jogging with their head down is not what you're wanting, is it?
I much prefer to ground drive with long reins. I do NOT put the outside rein behind their butt, but put the reins in the upper rings on the surcingle. I then cross the rein across their back. It gives a much finer feel on the horse's mouth without the "bumping" that will occur with the horse's haunch movement.
Maybe the OP might have a trainer who will teach her how to use ground driving techniques. It is much more productive than lunging, IMO.
Im at a parelli related barn, so idk if they would know anything about the driving your talking about.. I have taught Chance to drive, SO if I could see a video I could learn how to do it myself Im looking at all my options and right now I want to try what spyder suggested with the 2 lunge lines. But what you are suggesting would be fun to try!
But a week ago we were just doing the parelli games etc and shes use to being lazy and not moving forward cause it wasnt part of the 'program' so this is the best shes been since we dropped it. Shes not use to useing those muscles so im gradually gonna keep asking for more forward movement so she doesnt get sore quickly. But seeing that everyone is just suggesting normal side reins I might ask my BO if she has any around.. I know she has elastic reins.. not that it matters lol
And its not the lunging system. It is similar just has no back pully thing. lol! love my descriptions :P
Im at a parelli related barn, so idk if they would know anything about the driving your talking about.. I have taught Chance to drive, SO if I could see a video I could learn how to do it myself Im looking at all my options and right now I want to try what spyder suggested with the 2 lunge lines. But what you are suggesting would be fun to try!
But a week ago we were just doing the parelli games etc and shes use to being lazy and not moving forward cause it wasnt part of the 'program' so this is the best shes been since we dropped it. Shes not use to useing those muscles so im gradually gonna keep asking for more forward movement so she doesnt get sore quickly. But seeing that everyone is just suggesting normal side reins I might ask my BO if she has any around.. I know she has elastic reins.. not that it matters lol
And its not the lunging system. It is similar just has no back pully thing. lol! love my descriptions :P
Hmm, I guess Arie will never "use himself correctly" since I don't lunge him with straps on his face and I follow Parelli....interesting....so i guess the floating trot I feel under saddle, with his back engaged, is just a fluke. That dang horse, he pulled one over on me! lol!
Hmm, I guess Arie will never "use himself correctly" since I don't lunge him with straps on his face and I follow Parelli....interesting....so i guess the floating trot I feel under saddle, with his back engaged, is just a fluke. That dang horse, he pulled one over on me! lol!
It's cute how just because someone doesn't agree with must automatically mean they think you're wrong to. I fail completely and entirely to locate the part where someone said obtaining those things without training devices was a farce. The OP is exploring new avenues, not saying it can't be done without them. Having an open mind is such a novel and ridiculous idea, isn't it?
The OP said she is dropping Parelli completely so she can "work Chance correctly," thus implying Parelli doesn't work horses correctly OR that "correctness" can't be obtained from the program, which is completely inaccurate.
Your point? This particular individual does not feel parelli is working for her and her horse and that's her perogrative. Nobody was attacking YOUR right to continue doing the same.
Okay I see where your coming from with the driving vs the lungeing method. I was actually thinking about the impulsion part right after I read it but Im glad you brought it up
Yeah Chances back and been a HUGE issue when it comes to saddle fitting. Still trying to make something work. Shes an arab/tb and her mother had the typical TB look all together including the back.
SH I never said it couldnt be attained by the program. Parelli just didnt seem to be the road that I want to continue following. Ill take bits and peices but I want to do my own things
Savvy I dont believe that was directed towards you. I think spyder ment in general?
Now I gotta get this range of movement captured under saddle and online :P
I only skimmed the previous posts because of the drama... If your trying to get your horse to move forward and use his back more... Do you have a neck stretcher?
Hook it loosely so it hangs around the horses butt just a few inches above the hocks. Its a start if you don't have drive lines or arn't familiar with using them.. Give it a try and you might be surpised how much "lift" you get. Its useful for building that muscle memory.
Ya know those pessoa systems? They have the right idea... I just don't like how they are connected for more action in the mouth. Once you get that hind end under him more you can add simple side reins for some encouragement up front but in short bursts... be sure to unhook them frequently.
I do not have a neck stretcher. Never even really looked into them. I try and stay away from all the equitment, I had to convince myself for weeks that it was okay to use side reins ****!
I always stayed away from the Pessoa system because i hated how every time the horse took a step they would get a tug on the mouth.
Lol everyone asks me if Chance as a TB/QH cause of how laid back she can beand Shes not shes a TB/Arab :P The only time people actually guess arab is when shes full of herself and prancing around with her tail in the air :P Or if you look closey at her head you can see a slight arab dip. But yeah that trot is amazing I just want to capture it under saddle. Or even getting it online would be nice lol
I've seen Chance strung out before, and this diffinately isnt it. She was holding her self together better then she has in the past. She needs more implustion and I understand that. Which if you read the post I made, im gradually asking for more forward movement over time because shes just so use to practically joggin when on the circle game.. So it would be like asking you to go from barely a jog to a full out sprint almost, im sure you'd be pretty sore afterwards. So if I do it gradually over a few sessions she wont be sore and I can continue to work her.
I mean... a horse is either hollow or it's not, and when it's not that would essentially be collected.
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