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Lunging cues?

This is a discussion on Lunging cues? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        06-08-2009, 10:28 PM
      #11
    Super Moderator
    I'm pretty sure she knows I'm the one in charge, but I'll give the whip snapping a try.
    I'm just worried that if I end up having to hit her she'll get really scared and have an even harder time obeying next time. But maybe she's not really as fragile as she makes herself seem. I'll give it a try and I'll let you know what happens.
         
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        06-08-2009, 10:38 PM
      #12
    Green Broke
    If she thought you were in charge, she'd be stopping. So she's exerting her control over you by not doing so. If you end up smacking her legs, she's going to get pissed and act out. Ignore it and continue on like she didn't. Give her a smack, if she backs up rears, tries to pull away whatever, bring her back in ask her to walk, trot then do the transition again.

    Sometimes it will be a big battle. I've seen my trainer work over an hour on just that because the horse decided it was going to fight her every step of the way. The second the horse did it right, the lesson was over. By the next lesson the horse might fight a little bit, but would get the cue sooner. And when the horse got it, lesson over. And so forth.

    Just make sure that if you are in a smaller circle you've got good tension on the rope. You don't want to be close enough that she can kick out if she decides to act up and buck.

    I think they want us to think they are a lot more fragile than they are. That's why some horses try to get away with things. Solon will pull that with me from time to time on other things. His warnings are: point my finger at him (which usually works) and then it escalates to a pop on the shoulder with the crop. It makes a nice noise but it does nothing to hurt them. Then he gives me the lippy move (submission sign) and does what he's supposed too.
         
        06-08-2009, 10:56 PM
      #13
    Started
    It should never be a battle. We can prevent a horse from going there if we do things right. If we do things in an aggressive manner, we ultimately MAKE the horse go there, and we set him up for failure. This can be prevented.
         
        06-08-2009, 11:45 PM
      #14
    Green Broke
    Yes, it can be a battle if the horse decides he wants to do things his/her way. I've seen it many times. Sorry but I don't believe in the style of training that you do Spirithorse. I think shaking a lead line at a horse is load of nonsense. Of course that doesn't mean it wouldn't work for Wallaby's horse or anyone else's.

    There are many ways to train. What works for some people may not work for another. Giving people options lets them pick and choose what works for them.

    If you watch horses sometimes they use aggressive ways when a horse decides it isn't going to listen to the lead horse. That involves kicking or biting.

    Smacking a horse with the crop isn't beating a horse. It dosen't hurt them but it gets their attention. Oftentimes you don't even need to get to that level. Like I said with my horse, mostly I only need to point my finger at him and he knows to settle down.

    However, there are some horses out there that are determined to do things their own way. That's when it becomes more of an effort to bring them into line of what we want them to do. Call it a battle call it a difference of opinion, whatever term. There is resistance and it's up to us to find that right way to bring them around.

    Depending on the horse it may be that shaking things at them works. On others it might not.

    Wallaby do you have access to a person there that could be there to work with you? I know sometimes for me, it's easy when my trainer can be there to show me the steps and then I'm able to work on them by myself. It's hard to relay over the internet information at times!

    I know you guys will get to the point you are working toward though!
         
        06-09-2009, 12:38 AM
      #15
    Super Moderator
    Thank you Solon for being so helpful! And everybody else who responded! =)
    I'll update this thread after I'm able to try these ideas out on Lacey.

    I am not adverse to smacking Lacey when she misbehaves and getting a little bit rougher with her, I've just had to work super hard at being non-confrontational with her because in the face of confrontation she starts turning into a real issue....which is probably a sign of a problem... Dang.
    My trainer lady might be able to be there with me but she has a distinct way of doing things and she really doesn't see any problem with Lacey's behavior. =/ She sees the issues with Lacey when I ride but she sees lunging as an unnecessary thing that is used just to get the horse tired, while I see it as a way to assess Lacey's mood, her level of energy for the day, and a way to work on our relationship.
    She's a much better trainer than the one I had before her but she has more of a work relationship with her horses...if that makes any sense.

    I totally know what you mean about explaining things over the internet. =)

    So with this whip snapping/smacking idea do you say the cue -"walk"- no response- cue + whip snap in front of horse- no response- cue + light smack on legs - or does it more quickly escalate? Cue - whip snap- whip smack?
         
        06-09-2009, 08:18 PM
      #16
    Green Broke
    I just sent you a PM. It sounds like I can actually SHOW it to ya! LOL!
         
        06-09-2009, 08:45 PM
      #17
    Green Broke
    Hmmm, have you tried a "join-up technique" with her? When we do joinup and the horse ignores the cue to slow and turn with the whip, we progress to jumping in front of them, hands up and yelling WHOA. I know you're going for a walk now, but it's a way to make her focus on you without having to resort to the whip just yet and get her listening to you.

    Perhaps you could just forget the lunge for now, hopefully you have a round pen? Work on joinup with her. I'm sure she's likely not to understand at first since she'll just continue trotting even if your back is to her, but work moreso on disengaging her. Ask her to move forward, let her circle a few times, then MAKE her stop and turn. Continue asking for a change of direction almost constantly, if she's running past the whip, get out in front of her and MAKE her "whoa". This is where the use of the whip would also come in as Solon advised, escalate the force as neccesary until she's focused on YOU.

    Lunging is very much a respect thing as a horse pretty much has to be verbal cue trained and have the respect for you to listen. I don't even use a whip with my mare on the lunge, because she's completely voice activated. However, my 2 year old doesn't quite understand lunging yet and is very much "WEEEE, RUNNING!" Doing joinup with her made her totally stop and realize she HAD to listen to me. I plan on doing it quite a bit more before advancing to lunge cues, but she's also learning her verbal cues from a lot of ground work with leading and such.

    Again, when I say joinup, it CAN be completely modified to suit your purpose. For example, I can do joinup with my Arab mare and she won't walk into me because she's been trained not to from being lunged. I am fine with that, and much prefer it. When I did joinup with Jynx, she also didn't submit in a classical way (dropping her head) and wouldn't walk into me when I turned my back, but I wasn't aiming for perfect textbook "joinup", I was aiming for her focusing on me and listening to me which is exactly what I got.
         
        06-09-2009, 08:58 PM
      #18
    Super Moderator
    It's a small world Solon! =P

    I actually have joined up with her and I try to join up with her at least once during/after every session. She's very willing to do it too. It took her forever to catch on but she finally did and now she'll even try to do it when I don't want/didn't tell her to >.< but I shoo her away and she only does that every once in a while.
         
        06-09-2009, 09:13 PM
      #19
    Started
    A HUMAN smacking a horse and another HORSE biting him are two completely different things. But I'm not going to hijack the thread.
         
        06-09-2009, 09:16 PM
      #20
    Green Broke
    I think with practice and trying different things you'll find what works. I tried and tried and we just couldn't get it done. Then finally I took him off the lead line and he was making beautiful circles around me and doing his transitions. So you'll find what works.

    It's just the 'getting there' that gets nerve-wracking!
         

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