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Lunging a difficult horse?

7K views 35 replies 9 participants last post by  Yogiwick 
#1 ·
When I start lunging my horse the first 2 circles are fine, but then he ducks he head and starts running for his Stables at so much force its impossible for me to pull him round. I lunge him in his paddock near his Stable. Any useful advice please ?.
(He has always done this, he has never had a good lunging session).
 
#6 ·
but then he ducks he head and starts running for his Stables at so much force its impossible for me to pull him round.

We have tried, halters, bridles and lunging halters. He still finds a way to do it and run out.
And therein lies the hole in your ground work.

Sounds like he needs a good dose of learning some respect for his handler. He should not be dragging you around and pulling against you. I would suspect there are other issues with his ground manners that are overlooked, but it is clearly evident when you try to lunge him.

Do you have access to a trainer that can show you how to fix his ground manners? It's a matter of paying attention to your horse at all times when you are handling him on the ground, and gaining better body control over him.
 
#7 ·
Ditto to what Beau said.
Every time he succeeds in pulling away from you, that habit becomes more in grained, thus, IF you can't stop him from pulling away, get someone to work with him who can, and DO NOT lunge him yourself anymore, until whoever works with your horse, teaches you how to maintain the correction
I agree on getting more respect on the ground, just leading, before trying to lunge him again.
For me, a stud shank run under the chin achieves this respect. We even hand bred stallions this way.
You do need to know how to use that stud shank correctly, how to introduce your horse to that stud shank, and to make sure it is attached and long enough , to give instant release, when that horse gives. An extra long cotton lead shank, with that stud shank braided in, works very well, as you need enough length to go with the horse, should he go up, thus not loose him, and correct him.
If you are using a stud shank with constant pressure, a horse can learn to just run through it, thus doe snot get that complete reward when he is correct. THat is one reason I prefer a stud shank run under the chin. It will drop off completely and have no effect, when the horse is being light, but if he decides to try and pull away, one or two sharp jerks, convince him otherwise, and can turn him around in his tracks
Sorry, for those who think a stud shank is never indicated. We are talking of ahorse that has learned his won strength, thus needs whatever it takes, short term, hopefully, to never have him succeed in doing so again.
 
#8 ·
Find someone stronger to lunge him
You've never mentioned that he's difficult to lead so I'm not going down that route
You have more 'power' when he pulls against you if you run the clip of the lunge line through the ring of the bit (on the side you're going to be standing nearest too when you're lungeing) over the top of the poll and clip it onto the top of the bit ring on the other side instead of attaching the line to a headcollar or lungeing cavesson but its really a method that someone who's got a lot of experience should work him in for a few sessions
You'd also have a bit more power if you attached side reins from the bit to the surcingle or saddle - just to keep his head in a normal riding position, slightly ahead of the vertical
 
#10 ·
I rarely disagree with you Jaydee, but in this case, I would not lunge an escaper like this in a bridle, at all. to train the horse out of this, there is going to be a point where a whole lot of pressure is put on the hrose when it decides to "leave" and you decide to make it stay. I'd rather not have all that go to his mouth, and mayve have the bit pulled through his mouth. in theory, the attachment to the outside ring of the bit would stop this, but iit can get really up into their mouth, or even pull partway through.
it's messy and hard on the mouth.

personally, I'd rather work either in a rope halter, or as Smilie said, use a stud chain, so that I could apply hard corrections without it being right IN his mouth.
 
#9 ·
My horse did this for a while. Even after some much needed attitude adjustments, he knew he could get away like this since he was much stronger. I started using the chain and haven't had this problem since. The only thing with the chain is that you need to know when to release pressure. The chain releasing its grip around his chin should be his reward for coming back to the circle.
 
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#11 ·
My assumption is this horse is either not properly halter broke, Meaning the horse does not release from halter pressure, thus it pulls against & runs through halter pressure, and/or is not well desensitized to whatever pressure you use to move him when lunging, thus getting over excited and wanting to leave the scene.

I would work on teaching the horse to release from halter pressure, then go back to your ground work but with a different direction. Instead of running him in circles, use exercises that will engage this horses mind and get his attention on the you the handler. I would keep in at the walk, having him yield the fore quarters and yield hind quarters to pressure so that you can gain complete control of this horses feet. Once the horse understands this I might build him up to the trot, changing directions about half or a quarter rotation, but not in a complete circle. Theses exercises with changes in directions will assist you in controlling the horse from the ground and get the horse thinking about what you are going to ask of them. There is almost never a reason to run horses in circles unless you are teaching them verbal cues to change gaits so I would avoid this until you get better control & respect of the horse from the ground.

Beau also made a good point in that you should always be aware of the horses mindset and disposition when you are working with them. The trouble you are having with running off can be prevented before it happens by redirecting this energy if you were aware of the horses mindset.

Best of luck
 
#13 ·
I don't like to lunge in a stud chain, either.

to work through this whole issue I would work in a rope halter, and at a much shorter distance, and as one person said, do a lot of turning and things where the horse meets the halter pressure and learns to come off it , to respect it. with a rope halter, you have just a bit more 'bite'. the thing with lunging with stud chains is that they swing around and whack the horse and are clumsy.

however, this hrose needs leading / tying training first, so really, lunging it , for now, is not what will get it to be more respectful of the halter.

of course, the handler has to make her authority beleiveable, too.
 
#15 ·
i used to lease a horse who did this sly trick, but he did it if I was either trying to load him in a trailer (he'd duck to the side, get his head away from me and lined up with his hindquarters, and there isn't a human alive strong enough to hold such a horse.

he'd do it with bathing, too, if I didn't keep his head turned in toward me at all times.

He was fine leading, and fine under saddle, but had learned this trick, and the only way around it was the stud chain, though we put it over the nose.

that was the only way to get him to load reliablly into the trailer.

once they learn this trick, they never forget.
 
#24 ·
We sometimes have that problem when loading, if there is no way for him to escape out of the sides he will circle and drag who ever he has back. We are not sure why he is like this with a trailer or box (we've tried both). He has always done this.
How did you sort this problem?
 
#16 ·
Again - a stud chain or a chifney are great tools for sorting out a leading problem but this horse doesn't have a leading problem - he's got a lungeing problem in as much as he doesn't want to do it so he uses his strength to 'exit stage left'.
He leads fine, he rides fine other than he's lazy
Its similar to horses that are barn sour or just don't want to ride in a certain place, they know all the cues, they understand what whoa means but they'll still spin round and cart you off back home if they feel like it.
This isn't a horse that doesn't know how to give to pressure, this is a horse that refuses to give to pressure on the lunge when he doesn't feel like working
If no one can hold him on the lunge then I'd take the line off him and make him work 'loose', get behind him (at a safe distance of course) with a lunge whip and make him move away from that gate and keep going till he gest the message
This video shows how to put a lunge line over the poll between the two sides of the bit (if HF will allow the link)
 
#19 ·
A bit, whether riding or on the ground, should never be used for control, and I have no problem giving a horse that tries to pull away, a very sharp and sudden jerk on that stud chain, but would never want to be in a position to apply any similar force to the mouth, even if a horse is being a 'turd;

,
after all, he is only doing what he has been rewarded for! ( learning he can decide how long he will lunge, able to run off towards the barn )
We train a horse each and every time we handle or ride them.
I do lunge off the bit, but only once a horse is lunging with respect, keeping slack in that lunge line.
What is the point in starting a horse, in a bit, in such a manner that he stays light, and then lunging him in such manner, where chances are, you are going to get into his mouth 'big time'!
If I am communicating with that horse, either riding, or lunging, using a bit, I want that horse tot he point where he never pulls against that bit, thus staying very light to any bit pressure
 
#21 ·
I'm struggling to understand why anyone would think that yanking on a stud chain is going to be less aggressive than pulling against a bit that's set up to work mostly poll pressure?
I have honestly never heard of anyone lunging a horse off a stud chain
This is NOT a green horse or an unbroken horse this is a horse that knows how to respond to a bit and has had years of work under saddle so I doubt very much if one pull to tell him that he's being a bully is going to ruin his mouth
 
#22 ·
Well, we all have our own methods, and for one thing, running that rein over the poll while lunging, is not done western
You are correct in this not being a green horse, but one that has learned that he can pull away, and I don't mind using a stud shank on such a horse, using a good jerk, that gets the message across.
I want to be able to get after that horse, hard as it takes, to make a believer out of him, and not just hold him by poll or bit pressure.
You can make that correction, and as soon as the horse gives, there is no chain effect, so for me, anyway, it more of a way to follow the idea , or correct, versus pick, and then get out again, giving the horse a chance to do the right thing (lunge on a loose line)Not everyone has to agree.

Perhaps it is just a preference, geared towards discipline under saddle, far as bit contact. I often see English horses lunged at the indoor I haul to at times, and they are going around with a taunt lunge line.
By the time I lunge a horse, off the inside ring of a bit he keeps slack in that line and tracks his circle.
I guess the OP can find out what works for her and her horse,but at this point, I think some professional help is needed, so this horses does not continue to win
 
#25 ·
That is when you could use a stud chain though they aren't so commonly used in the UK other than by actual Stud handlers and people who professionally work with horses that can be 'difficult' in certain situations, horses that are really difficult to lead are more often put in a chifney in the UK though I would try leading in a bridle before trying either of those things
 
#28 ·
There is a huge difference in a horse that knows perfectly well how to give to pressure but has a challenging nature and has also learnt that it can drag people about when it wants too and a horse that doesn't know how to give to pressure because its never been taught
This horse knows how too give to pressure but its also learnt that it can easily get away from a handler when it wants too.
The only way you can deal with a horse like this is to put something on its head that creates enough discomfort when it tries to break away that it thinks twice about doing it, a human on two legs is no match at all for a 800 - 1000lb horse with 4 legs in a battle of strength
Sometimes using a bridle, a chain or a chifney bit for a while will cure them long term but from experience once they know they can get away from you in a normal headcollar/halter they'll try it again at some point down the line when the circumstances dictate to them
 
#29 ·
Well, there you go, and why I lunge a horse that has learned he can pull away with a stud chain!. It works both leading and lunging!

The idea is to correct (meaning the horse does first of all, understand how to give to pressure, but has, through mis handling, found out it is a bluff, that we control him either with a plain halter and lead shank, or alonger 'lead shank' , know as a lunge line!
The idea then, is make make a pulling away attempt, either lunging or leading, both unsuccessful, and to also have consequences, making the 'right thing easy and the wrong thing hard'
Once that correction has taken place, you HAVE to give that horse a chance to 'do the right thing, thus completely remove that extra pressure, which the stud shank allows, used correctly
See, the reason you don't feel comfortable lunging off of the inside ring of the bit, Jaydee, is because you do lunge off the bit, before the horse is soft and giving, no longer pulling

Far as that loading problem, -that is aleading problem. Take that horse away from thast trailer, an dgiv ehim a lesson in leading with respect. I use a stud shank.
THEN, you must put on an ordinary lead shank, and give the horse a chance to do the right thing, and that is load, without any attempt to balk or pull away.
The 'obstacle is not the obstacle, and you NEVER correct the horse at the actual physical obstacle itself, or risk a negative association with that obstacle
The true problem is, that the horse decides as to where he will or will not lead. Fix that, then ask him to load
 
#32 ·
I don't use rope halters much, but consider them an 'in between, far as a plain nylon halter and a stud shank.
They won't stop ahorse that really has gotten smart about pulling away, by just bolting suddenly, but they will get a horse a bit lighter, that has no major issue
I never leave halters on, and never use a rope halter routinely, because, to me, it is like always using a twisted wire snaffle, versus just using it short term, to get the horse more responsive again, then going back to that plain web halter. I don't tie with a rope halter-ever
A stud shank, used correctly, just like spurs, does not intimidate a horse, make him fearful, is abusive, as a horse learns you have that stud shank run under the chin, just like ahorse that knows you ride with spurs. Both then, respond to light leg or lead shank alone, long as you always ask first, then demand. Spurs used correctly, keep a horse light while riding. A stud shank does the same, used on the ground, run under the chin, where it never comes into play, IF that horse gives lightly to that lead shank, keeping slack, or to that lunge line, for that matter, which is just a longer form of that lead shank.
Watch a showmanship pattern. Those horses are very light in hand, never engaging that stud shank run under the chin, same as a horse ridden correctly with spurs, seldom needs to be touched with those spurs, yet responds to invisible leg aids

 
#33 ·
"I don't use rope halters much, but consider them an 'in between, far as a plain nylon halter and a stud shank.
They won't stop ahorse that really has gotten smart about pulling away, by just bolting suddenly, but they will get a horse a bit lighter, that has no major issue
I never leave halters on, and never use a rope halter routinely, because, to me, it is like always using a twisted wire snaffle, versus just using it short term, to get the horse more responsive again, then going back to that plain web halter. I don't tie with a rope halter-ever."

This is definitely part of it. The horses I work with that need more need MORE I have no use for an "in between".
 
#34 ·
Smilie - The reason I would never lunge off the inside ring of a bit has nothing at all to do with any of my horses not being properly trained to lunge because I won't use a stud chain on them - how on earth do you assume something like that?
My horses all lunge perfectly in an open field or in a manège because they're correctly trained one step at a time to do that
The reason I won't lunge off that ring is because even the weight of a good quality clip and lunge line will be putting weight and direct pressure on that inside rein which is not want you want
The correct way to lunge off a bridle - as I've already said - is to run the line over the poll which makes puts direct pressure on the outside rein and indirect pressure on the inside - which is how it should be.
Perhaps you were never taught that?
 
#35 ·
See, we can agree to disagree. When you run that lunge line over the poll, you are not using those direct reins as they are meant to be. You have an action, a bit like a full cheek snaffle, with pressure being also applied to the opposite side, in the opposite direction of signal, except that it is not done with the opposite rein, but rather that cheek piece that is pressed against the opposite side of the face, as the direct rein is engaged in the direction of travel
I have watched English people lunge a horse, as you suggest, but let me assure you that the reason I don't do so, have nothing to do with not being 'taught;
I have never seen a western trainer lunge a horse in that manner, yet we create very light horses, working on a loose rein. How much weight, do you think, is really being applied, when a horse lunges off of that inside ring of the snaffle on a completely loose line?
We can agree to differ, coming from different discipline backgrounds, and what we want in a finished horse, and I can assure you, that I have no intention of ever running that lunge line over the poll! I don't ride, using my reins in that manner., so why would I lunge a horse that way?
 
#36 ·
Honestly, for both arguments (Smilie and I have already agreed to disagree on this :P) horses are pretty forgiving and good at figuring out what you want. My thought is riding is not lunging and I don't care if it's exactly like riding. Horses definitely figure it out. I have not seen any heavy horses created by lunging. I personally will always run over the poll over a stud chain. Maybe some day I'll change my mind but for now I am very happy with that and see no reason to. My horses will also lunge in a halter with the line snapped to the chin only. Unless I had a VERY spoiled horse I don't see any reason to use a chain and don't feel it's at all right for regular lunging. Using a chain will also have that same "not as it is riding" effect. Shrug. We will all do what works for us, and also for what we do. I bet Smilie and I could swap horses and each lunge our own way and the horses would be just fine.
 
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