Lunging question - Green horse now rearing - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 17 Old 04-28-2013, 12:30 PM
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By the by... my method is what I do as a single person doing the training, without anyone else there to lead the horse out on a larger circle. I start off with control on a small circle and gradually work the horse farther out as they understand the cues. Both methods have their merits.
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post #12 of 17 Old 04-28-2013, 01:26 PM Thread Starter
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Pat & Eolith,
Thank you again both for the advice! I was using a 12 foot lead to lunge at first, but when I added the chain to the work, it was a 30' that I held at about 15-20 feet. I do have a rope halter with a 10' lead on it. Watching the videos I must say, he needs MUCH more work! If I tried that with the whip, I'd be road kill LOL
So I am thinking today I will do both lessons separately, the lunge work with a second hand just at a walk with one click and whoas, and then after a little hand grazing, try to desensitize to the whip (no flag). I think if I tried to do the desensitizing first, he would be too worked up to grasp the lunging.
I have done a lot of walk, whoa when leading him around just from here to there and he is fine with it. It just seems once he gets to the end of the lead, not right next to you, he seems to freak out about it. And he gets very worked up like he doesn't know himself what he is going to do next. He is young and just doesn't know anything, so I am trying to remember that when he throws a tantrum He seems to have some trust issues too, not when just general things are going on, like grooming or feeding, or just hanging out with him, but when you ask him to work it's like all of a sudden he's scared of what might happen. It's almost like he all of sudden has fear in his eyes.
I know it will be a long, slow process and I do look forward to it for the bonding. And I am very grateful to all of you on HF that share your advice and tips! Thank you
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post #13 of 17 Old 04-28-2013, 02:11 PM
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Lunging in a chain is not a good idea. The weight of such a long chain alone will make your signals to the horse wonky, not to mention the danger of an accident if you dropped the line and somehow it caught onsomething or he stepped on it, and the sudden , severe pull on the chain over his nose could actually break the bones in his face. only use a chain over a hrose's nose if the chain is pretty short (like 3 or 4 feet from the halter ring , after going around the nose and through the rings).

I agree with Pat and Eolith.

The only thing I can add is that hearing how this horse drags you around makes me think that he really does not even understand how to "give" to the halter. that is about the most fundamental level of training a human puts on a young horse, when they are very young.

I suspect he leads, but maybe doesn't turn well if you change directions sharply when walking, doesn't stop well if you stop and he thinks he'd like to keep going. He leads if he wants to, but not becuase he is following the feel of the rope and the halter. So, get the rope halter and start working on getting him to flex his head from side to side when you put pressure on the rope, with care to release when he does. so, he learns to follow the rope line.
Does he stand tied ok? I think you said he did, so maybe this isn't as much of an issue as I thought. but anyway, he should be responsive to pressure on the halter.

So, you can use "pulling'' on the line to lead, bend, stop him.

now you need to be able to "push" him, or "send" him. That's the part where you use your energy to make the horse move forward, move sideways, move away from you. Like the girl in the video.
But, if the horse does not know how to give to pressure, you send him forward, he hits the end of the rope, does not have the training to give to the pressure, and then . .. goes UP.

Does this make sense?
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post #14 of 17 Old 04-28-2013, 03:08 PM
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After reading all of this, I think maybe if you play the 7 Parelli "Games" with him it might solve some of your problems. I like them because they break things down step by step and cover the basic issues your horse is having. I am not a Parelli devotee but I really DO like the 7 Games for ground training.

How to Do the Seven Games of Parelli: Step-by-Step Instructions

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post #15 of 17 Old 04-28-2013, 05:21 PM Thread Starter
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UPDATE: We worked him earlier using the methods/advice from the forum, with GREAT results!! For the lunge, we used the rope halter w/ 10' lead and a second hand, he followed her every move. By the third change direction, he did it completely on his own! He never got excited/nervous/agitated, stopped halfway through my whoa, and started walking the second I asked him. He did GREAT! Afterwards, we let him graze a bit, and then walked around just dragging the whip on the ground on the other side of us. He watched it for about 5 minutes, then ignored it. We did this for a while and got closer and closer to him with it, and then started having it brush his feet. NO REACTION! Finally we stopped him and started moving it up his body, hooves first. He stood there like the horse in the video... honestly I was shocked! By the end we could touch his ears with it, "crack it" next to him, rub it all over, no problems
He started, maintained, and ended his lessons without any fight/flight/fear, which is a first for us. We put him back in the pasture and just went out for feed time, he normally charges the fence and races to his feed pan, this time he stopped and greeted us, then made his very calm way over to his feed spot.
Tiny, he does stand very well when tied, unless he is spooked, then he really flips out and tries to break free. When he cannot, it takes about a minute for him to relax. I will definitely work on bending in tomorrow's lesson as what you said makes great sense. He leads well, but I think your right, not because of pressure, but he just wants to follow whoever has the lead.
Pat, thank you for the Parelli link, just reading it over before posting this, I think those exercises, or games, will work wonders on him. He is ok with the "porcupine" but usually at a high pressure level. I will continue to work on this with him, and now I feel MUCH more comfortable with the next step, the "Driving".
Again I thank ALL of you for your advice, it REALLY made a difference today when we worked him!!
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post #16 of 17 Old 04-28-2013, 06:02 PM
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For sure, always start a horse with a handler, always wear gloves and NEVER let the line drop. Remember the horse moves away from you, not other way round. And usually when things have gone south you might need to get the assistance of someone who knows how to properly lunge a horse to reset the horse's reaction patterns. The equipment used has blocked the horse's mind at this point/it feels trapped.
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post #17 of 17 Old 04-28-2013, 06:49 PM
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Glad it went well! So far as the pulling, etc- here are my 2 cents (for what it's worth) I didn't see these things mentioned.

1) Don't worry about whether you are in the center, in the beginning. Just fallow with the horse. Some horses it's common in the beginning to "rear" or kinda jump up, balk, bolt, etc- let them, just continue to give them the cue. Fallow them (safely) and act like nothing's happening. Unless they are being aggressive, don't reprimand them. They are just being nervous and figuring the way out of the situation (which, the way out should be the way you want them to go). Once he gets the idea, then you can focus it to the center.

2) What I do when a horse has a tendency to want to drag me around is jerk the lead rope/halter quickly and release- I don't hang on and pull. I am by no means going to win a tug of war with a 1200lb animal so I don't try. If they begin to lean on the halter, i just jerk them off balance a bit and carry on (again, like nothing happened). Not over and over again, just one good, quick jerk every time they lean or pull on it- if you just hang on and continue pulling- they can lean on that and pull against you. Kinda like, if you were playing tug of war, and all of a sudden, the other side just let go- you'd go flopping to the dirt. But, if they are pulling, you can dig in your heals and really lean into it. Same basic idea. Don't give him something to fight against. Pretty soon, they figure out that halter is alot more comfortable when there's no tension in it.
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