Major respect? issue with horse
 
 

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Major respect? issue with horse

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  • Why does my horse turn his butt to me
  • Respect issues with horses

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    01-15-2012, 08:06 AM
  #1
Green Broke
Major respect? issue with horse

My horse Sammy is starting to get on everyones nerves. Everyone either doesn't like him or is scared of him.

We have several problems:

> personal space issues
> Kicking/ turning butt towards person
> bad behaviour with farrier

First the space issues when I first got him I was told he would need a firm hand so I wasn't suprised by his pushiness at first. When leading him he would barge into you and step on you etc. I no longer have this problem with him but if anyone other then my riding instructor or me lead him his pushiness starts shining through again until the person either gets frustrated or scared and insists we swap the horses we're leading.
Also when I lunged him he would barge in and try to knock me with his shoulder, until he realised he was going to get a good sting from the whip on his shoulder everytime he did it. This really frustates me because I have no problems with this anymore but my mum gets angry with him and my sister is scared of him. I try to suggest them working on the ground with him with me there to help them so they can learn how to handle him better but neither of them are willing to do it. They think if he behaves for me he should behave for them. When this doesn't happen they say well he only likes you. I don't know what to do about this, it frustrates me to no end because sometimes I need an extra pair of hands to help so any suggestions ???

Ok my biggest problem though is his kicking/ butt turning it is getting beyond ridiculous. He doesn't do it often but I don't want him doing it at all. He only does it at feed time or when being lunged. He seems to do it when he gets annoyed about really being made to do the opposite of what he wants to do. Like at feed time he gets impatient and tries to eat food before its given to him and just about walks on top of you. He doesn't do this to me anymore but does to others so no one else likes to feed him. When he is loose at feed time and I make him move away a decent distance, twice he has turned kicked at me as he has run off, he hasn't actually gotten me but has come close. I have just picked something up (clump of dirt or something) and thrown it at his butt because the most recent time he did this I didn't have my lunge whip with me as I thought we were past this. Also on the lunge he once got annoyed about something I was trying to get him to do and turned his butt to me and started backing up and he has kicked at me before. In that situation I normally just give him a tap on the butt with the whip everytime he kicks and when he turned his butt I hit his butt with the whip and made him face me. I don't have this problem with any of my other horses they know better then to face their butts to me let alone kick me. He has only kicked a handful of times its mainly the constant butt in face that's getting on my nerves. I have tried making him move his feet or giving him a good wack with the whip and neither have made him put two and two together. I don't know what to do because it's not safe, I don't know what to do any help??

Last I have an issue when the farrier comes only with Sam. He doesn't like his back feet being done. When I first got him he didn't like his back feet being picked up at all in particular his left hind. He no longer makes a fuss with me and I can do just about anything with his back feet within reason hold them where I want for how long I want. As soon as the farrier tries to do anything he chucks a hissy fit behaves really bad making the job take twice as long, nearly hitting the farrier in the process. It is really emabrrassing and he is the only one of my three horses who does this. I don't really know what to do when the situation arises because the way I would normally correct this behaviour is a little difficult when the farrier is half standing under him. I don't really know what to do here either??


Sorry if this doesn't make sense I'm half asleep whilest typing this and its half rant half asking for advice. None of my other horses do this and he doesn't just do it to people he does this stuff to the other horses too, even the boss horse Apache who gets up him everytime. It's like he enjoys getting in trouble.
     
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    01-15-2012, 09:16 AM
  #2
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by apachewhitesox    
My horse Sammy is starting to get on everyones nerves. Everyone either doesn't like him or is scared of him.

We have several problems:

> personal space issues
> Kicking/ turning butt towards person
> bad behaviour with farrier

First the space issues when I first got him I was told he would need a firm hand so I wasn't suprised by his pushiness at first. When leading him he would barge into you and step on you etc. I no longer have this problem with him but if anyone other then my riding instructor or me lead him his pushiness starts shining through again until the person either gets frustrated or scared and insists we swap the horses we're leading.
Also when I lunged him he would barge in and try to knock me with his shoulder, until he realised he was going to get a good sting from the whip on his shoulder everytime he did it. This really frustates me because I have no problems with this anymore but my mum gets angry with him and my sister is scared of him. I try to suggest them working on the ground with him with me there to help them so they can learn how to handle him better but neither of them are willing to do it. They think if he behaves for me he should behave for them. When this doesn't happen they say well he only likes you. I don't know what to do about this, it frustrates me to no end because sometimes I need an extra pair of hands to help so any suggestions ??? Mum and sister should not be handling him until they are ready to get his respect. Neither should anyone else. JMHO. They will have to help with other things, but I would ake him off limits for them. THey WILL get hurt with their attitude.

Ok my biggest problem though is his kicking/ butt turning it is getting beyond ridiculous. He doesn't do it often but I don't want him doing it at all. He only does it at feed time or when being lunged. He seems to do it when he gets annoyed about really being made to do the opposite of what he wants to do. Like at feed time he gets impatient and tries to eat food before its given to him and just about walks on top of you. He doesn't do this to me anymore but does to others so no one else likes to feed him. When he is loose at feed time and I make him move away a decent distance, twice he has turned kicked at me as he has run off, he hasn't actually gotten me but has come close. I have just picked something up (clump of dirt or something) and thrown it at his butt because the most recent time he did this I didn't have my lunge whip with me as I thought we were past this. Also on the lunge he once got annoyed about something I was trying to get him to do and turned his butt to me and started backing up and he has kicked at me before. In that situation I normally just give him a tap on the butt with the whip everytime he kicks and when he turned his butt I hit his butt with the whip and made him face me. I don't have this problem with any of my other horses they know better then to face their butts to me let alone kick me. He has only kicked a handful of times its mainly the constant butt in face that's getting on my nerves. I have tried making him move his feet or giving him a good wack with the whip and neither have made him put two and two together. I don't know what to do because it's not safe, I don't know what to do any help??When he is on a lunge lunge line, I cannot see ANY reason why you should allow him to EVER stop with anything but eyes on you. THat butt better stay where it belongs. It sounds to me like your "stings" and "taps" just aren't enough for this guy. SOunds to me like he needs a REAL reality check now and then to get his butt in line, and that YOU are the alpha. I would never release him in the paddock until he is calm and FACING you, and personally, for a while at least, I would never take him out without a whip. Here again, he needs a good crack.

Last I have an issue when the farrier comes only with Sam. He doesn't like his back feet being done. When I first got him he didn't like his back feet being picked up at all in particular his left hind. He no longer makes a fuss with me and I can do just about anything with his back feet within reason hold them where I want for how long I want. As soon as the farrier tries to do anything he chucks a hissy fit behaves really bad making the job take twice as long, nearly hitting the farrier in the process. It is really emabrrassing and he is the only one of my three horses who does this. I don't really know what to do when the situation arises because the way I would normally correct this behaviour is a little difficult when the farrier is half standing under him. I don't really know what to do here either??Personally, I would talk to the farrier about it. Tell him you want to teach the horse, but are afraid to with him under him. I would think he would me more than happy to "set the horse up" for his usual antics JUST for teaching purposes. I would also, if your farrier is so inclined-allow HIM to correct the horse.


Sorry if this doesn't make sense I'm half asleep whilest typing this and its half rant half asking for advice. None of my other horses do this and he doesn't just do it to people he does this stuff to the other horses too, even the boss horse Apache who gets up him everytime. It's like he enjoys getting in trouble.
THis sounds to me like a very smart horse, who is going to take advantage of every possible person and situation. You will have to be on your toes, and not give him an inch. EVER. If he so much as THINKS about that butt coming in your direction-I would correct him. If you are consistent, I would think he will get to the point where you can correct strongly with the same voice/sound you use when you correct with the whip.

I would dos spend some time reading some of the MANY threads here on issues just like this.

I am NOT a trainer, but those would be my suggestions. Good luck, and stay safe. Remember-he is totally dissing you. That can NEVER be allowed.
Maple likes this.
     
    01-15-2012, 10:28 AM
  #3
Weanling
With lunging: I personally would lunge him on a line (I am not sure if you free lunge, or line lunge) WITH A CHAIN OVER HIS NOSE. This will help with the "butt in the face". Do NOT let him stop until you want him to, and only towards you. If he does stop, yank his face toward you (he WILL do it with that chain over his nose) and drive him forward, HARD. I also agree that no one should be handling him until they are willing to take the time to establish their dominance over him. He is dangerous.

Feeding and other people handling: Your doing the right things, but other people are not. They should not work with him until the can establish and gain his respect. Consistancy is KEY when training any horse. Those other people are not being consistant with your actions. (Leading/Feeding/Turnout)

Farrier: Get a **** good one who is willing to work with the horse, this is something HE needs to correct - you are not a farrier. He should be able to establish his dominance and get respect on his own and resolve the issue.

Hope this helped, I have been through this before.
     
    01-15-2012, 10:43 AM
  #4
Showing
I agree with what franknbeans has said. For now I wouldn't let anyone else handle him unless they are ready, willing & able to demand respect from him. Not only is there a good chance of them getting hurt but the work you have done to gain respect from him can quickly be undone.

On the lunge, he shouldn't have opportunity to get close to kick. You have a line on him, pull his nose and make him do an about face and put his butt back to work. Don't let him have opportunity to present his butt to you. Should he still, make him think his world is going to end. You don't have to beat him to make that point, look at a boss mare, they can just give 'that look' and back another horse down. Just be ready, should he call your bluff, to follow through and crack him a good one on the butt.

Does he yield his hindquarters on the ground? I'd start there with him. That way he'll understand what you expect him to do when he gets "in trouble" for showing his butt. Teach him that it's not okay for him to turn tail to you at anytime.

With the farrier, that's not uncommon. Ask your farrier how he'd prefer to go about it. I rarely have one misbehave but should I, I warn the farrier so he can move out of the way and correct it on the spot. Your farrier may also be willing to work with him some himself.
     
    01-15-2012, 01:42 PM
  #5
Weanling
I would explain to your family that respect is not transferable, to him you are the alpha and they are somewhere below him on the pecking order. Until they are willing to understand this and do the work that needs to be done to correct it they should not be handling this horse. As for the kicking when he turns his butt to you correct him with your voice as well as a HARD smack with your lunge whip, this is totally unacceptable and he needs to know that. Make him work his butt off and don't let him stop with anything but his face to you. He is testing your dominance and you have to establish/maintain the fact that you are the alpha.
     
    01-15-2012, 02:15 PM
  #6
Foal
I doubt this is an issue since he behaves this way other than being lunged, but have you talked to your vet about this and had an exam to rule out any physical causes?
     
    01-15-2012, 03:07 PM
  #7
Green Broke
Thanks everyone I plan on working with him a lot more soon I just haven't had the time lately.

I do lunge him on a line and he has only turned his butt to me once a long time ago but hasn't done it since he got in big trouble. He only continues to turn his butt when he is loose in a paddock, its kind of hard to describe what he does but I will take my whip whenever I go in the paddock for awhile now. Also on the lunge when he kicks out he isn't near me its more him complaining because because I tapped him on the butt to remind him hey I asked you to speed up.

Also no I haven't had a vet see about this I did not think it was a physical issue simply a respect issue. I have probably made him sound really bad which he kind of was in the begginning. He hasn't done most of the stuff on a regular basis for a least a few months, he just does that he does it occasionally which I don't want him doing.
     
    01-15-2012, 03:28 PM
  #8
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by nherridge    
With lunging: I personally would lunge him on a line (I am not sure if you free lunge, or line lunge) WITH A CHAIN OVER HIS NOSE. This will help with the "butt in the face". Do NOT let him stop until you want him to, and only towards you. If he does stop, yank his face toward you (he WILL do it with that chain over his nose) and drive him forward, HARD. I also agree that no one should be handling him until they are willing to take the time to establish their dominance over him. He is dangerous.

This drives me nuts.

Why just whap a chain on the horse, if it doesn't realise what you want it for?

If you do ever lunge on a chain (which I wouldn't recommend without trying a bridle and a direct line to the bit first) you need to make sure you do the ground work FIRST so he knows he has to have respect for the chain- pressure and release. There is no point putting it on and hoping for the best. The bones in a horse's face are extremely delicate.

When you lunge him, I suggest you do some groundwork first. Also, instead of a long lunge whip, get a nice short whip that will give him a good ol' smack on the behind. Don't be scared about hurting him, if a horse kicks him in a field, that is 100x times worse than you with a whip.

If he kicks you, try not to back off (unless you obviously have to dodge feet) square up to him, and give him a fair few good smacks on his rump.

He has little respect for you, or his boundries, or a whip.

My advice- get a trainer. Don't allow anyone else to handle him at the moment.. its too dangerous!

But, going back to my initial point- if he doesn't know what you're asking, don't expect the right answers.
     
    01-15-2012, 03:34 PM
  #9
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by nherridge    
With lunging: I personally would lunge him on a line (I am not sure if you free lunge, or line lunge) WITH A CHAIN OVER HIS NOSE. This will help with the "butt in the face". Do NOT let him stop until you want him to, and only towards you. If he does stop, yank his face toward you (he WILL do it with that chain over his nose) and drive him forward, HARD. I also agree that no one should be handling him until they are willing to take the time to establish their dominance over him. He is dangerous.

Feeding and other people handling: Your doing the right things, but other people are not. They should not work with him until the can establish and gain his respect. Consistancy is KEY when training any horse. Those other people are not being consistant with your actions. (Leading/Feeding/Turnout)

Farrier: Get a **** good one who is willing to work with the horse, this is something HE needs to correct - you are not a farrier. He should be able to establish his dominance and get respect on his own and resolve the issue.

Hope this helped, I have been through this before.
A chain over his nose, connected to the lunge line? I have never done this before and would think it possible dangerous. If the line got on the ground somehow and the horse stepped on it, couldn't he break the bones in his nose?
I think a rope halter, fitted good and tight, would be sufficient.
DuffyDuck likes this.
     
    01-15-2012, 03:38 PM
  #10
Super Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynnF    
I would explain to your family that respect is not transferable, to him you are the alpha and they are somewhere below him on the pecking order. Until they are willing to understand this and do the work that needs to be done to correct it they should not be handling this horse. As for the kicking when he turns his butt to you correct him with your voice as well as a HARD smack with your lunge whip, this is totally unacceptable and he needs to know that. Make him work his butt off and don't let him stop with anything but his face to you. He is testing your dominance and you have to establish/maintain the fact that you are the alpha.

I like that line.
     

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