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MAJOR tying problem. Please help

This is a discussion on MAJOR tying problem. Please help within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        01-02-2013, 08:56 PM
      #11
    Green Broke
    I would loop the lead, not tie, so if he does pull back it will give he could break his neck or hurt someone or someones horse. Are you tying to those portable fence panels? That's a no no.. Is there another horse next to him when he freaks? Did something or someone spook him ? Did the horse next to him threaten to kick or bite him ?
         
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        01-02-2013, 08:56 PM
      #12
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Breezy2011    
    Is this what happens? I found this video on youtube. You should watch it.

    Horse Rearing - YouTube
    Breezy that horse was just being a brat....it knew exactly what it was doing. With a horse like that I'd spank it's behind with a lunge whip everytime it backed up on those lines......I believe the OP has a horse that makes the one in the video look like an angel. I would/could critique that vid....as the handler did several silly things....but back to the original topic:

    I do believe there is something firing in her horse that is causing very dangerous and unpredictable behaviour.....
    LisaG likes this.
         
        01-02-2013, 09:04 PM
      #13
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stevenson    
    i would loop the lead, not tie, so if he does pull back it will give he could break his neck or hurt someone or someones horse. Are you tying to those portable fence panels? That's a no no.. Is there another horse next to him when he freaks? Did something or someone spook him ? Did the horse next to him threaten to kick or bite him ?
    I answered all of those questions in my original post. He was tied to the fence post which has a tie ring on it. The portable fence panel is what he flipped over and broke.I have never tied to something that can break and follow him around, and I never will. There was no horse next to him. Nothing that should have set him off. No other horses were even close to us. No horse flies. No loud noises. No birds all of a sudden taking flight. There was nothing. And even when there IS something like that 99.999 percent of the time he is like "oh I'm tied. Let me yield to the pressure like I am supposed to".

    But then on those rare days like today its like he loses all sense of self. I don't know how else to explain it. I am thinking it has to be something going on with him mentally .. but I don't know how to go about checking for brain issues? The only other thing I would be curious about is if the problems his previous owner had with him could somehow be bleeding into this? He is very respectful towards me though. He hasnt tried any of that crap with me (yet.)
         
        01-02-2013, 09:07 PM
      #14
    Banned
    Also -- if it is a misfire in his brain... why does it only come out while he is tied? NEver had any problem with him under sadlde, while being led, groundwork, anything like that. Would it be possible to have a 'misfire' that only occurs while he is tied? I of course don't wanna ignore that possibility but that to me seems like it is just a hole in his training somewhere? But then I'm stumped on why it can never happen consistently ... I'm just all sorts of at the end of my rope with this one
         
        01-02-2013, 09:09 PM
      #15
    Trained
    I agree w free, I would make sure he either was wearing a break-away halter, or was tied w something that can easily break.

    B/c he sounds very anxious about the pressure, the following might not be for the poor fellow, but if you can monitor him you might try putting a halter on him w a very short lead on it such that it does not touch the ground while his head is in its ordinary standing position (a few feet long, depending on how tall he is) - and let him amble around in a corral. Usually, after a bit this helps them learn the idea of going not panicking and going into the pressure when they inevitably put their head down and step on it - and it "catches" them.

    I looked at this thread b/c I am starting to teach a 2.5 yo to stand tied that has no prior "stand tied" training. Unfortunately, at this late date she is rather powerful and I actually worry about what damage she could do to herself and stuff. So, I am going slow. I stand behind a rock wall w the rope so I have the leverage of the wall, and my hand stays stationary and acts as the "tie ring". I wait for her to decide to go "out of range" (this can take a boring long while), she eventually pulls, and just "leans" (think donkey) pulling, she thinks it over and comes forward. It is an entirely "controlled" excercise and she can't hurt herself. She is basically ready for phase two...to be tied for real. I have visions of things collapsing if she pulls on the post w the power the little tank can muster. You might try to go back to square one w him.
         
        01-02-2013, 09:10 PM
      #16
    Weanling
    I think Freemare and Muppetgirl might be right about your horse not firing on all cylinders.

    I'm not sure what to suggest...can you get by without tying him too much? Could you teach him to ground tie and do that in some situations instead of tying, or keep him in box stalls/pens/enclosed areas?

    It's a pretty crappy situation, but your safety has to come first, and he doesn't sound safe when he's tied.

    I guess the only other suggestion is to talk to a vet and see if they can figure something out.
         
        01-02-2013, 09:14 PM
      #17
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Missy May    
    I agree w free, I would make sure he either was wearing a break-away halter, or was tied w something that can easily break.

    B/c he sounds very anxious about the pressure, the following might not be for the poor fellow, but if you can monitor him you might try putting a halter on him w a very short lead on it such that it does not touch the ground while his head is in its ordinary standing position (a few feet long, depending on how tall he is) - and let him amble around in a corral. Usually, after a bit this helps them learn the idea of going not panicking and going into the pressure when they inevitably put their head down and step on it - and it "catches" them.

    I looked at this thread b/c I am starting to teach a 2.5 yo to stand tied that has no prior "stand tied" training. Unfortunately, at this late date she is rather powerful and I actually worry about what damage she could do to herself and stuff. So, I am going slow. I stand behind a rock wall w the rope so I have the leverage of the wall, and my hand stays stationary and acts as the "tie ring". I wait for her to decide to go "out of range" (this can take a boring long while), she eventually pulls, and just "leans" (think donkey) pulling, she thinks it over and comes forward. It is an entirely "controlled" excercise and she can't hurt herself. She is basically ready for phase two...to be tied for real. I have visions of things collapsing if she pulls on the post w the power the little tank can muster. You might try to go back to square one w him.
    Missy May- I started at square one after the incident in June. I have used my hand to simulate being "tied" before, he gives appropriately. I have come at him with jingle bells, opening umbrellas, plastic bags, an air horn, those hands you can throw together to make them clap.. and each and every time he would pull to the end of the rope and step back up quietly. That's what is so nervewracking. I can't MAKE him pull back. He decides when he wants to. And its usually when nothing around him is bothering him/spooking him. Its almost as if he is having a seizure while he's tied. And it has only ever happened while he was tied. I have never seen anything like this in the pasture, under saddle, etc.

    He is hobble broke and he will step all over his lead for hours on end and not give a hoot.. He just goes "oh whoops my head is stuck down here!" and backs up off it. I have even tied him close before on occasion with a tie ring to see if that was the trigger -- and nope. Didnt bother him one bit.
         
        01-02-2013, 09:16 PM
      #18
    Weanling
    We had to bring out a vet that was trained in brain wave work. The horse was taken to a large vet barn. They tied him and had wires on him, so they could see what his brain was doing when he want nuts. Strange looking set up. I am not a big fan of all the high training gimics that everyone and everybody gets into. You don't need a speciel training program to fix something. Anyway, I don't think its training.

    What does he do when he is tied? Does he just stand there and falls a sleep?..etc
         
        01-02-2013, 09:21 PM
      #19
    Weanling
    I also think maybe that it could be that he gets into this deep trance like state. When you are doing something with him he has to think about, when he's tied he's bored. Not thinking.....then its like he comes back from his sleep trance and forgets what he is doing (tied to something) and the first thing he does in pull back. Forgetting everything from the point of falling a sleep. Then when he scares him self from pulling back he gets more scared.
         
        01-02-2013, 09:25 PM
      #20
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Freemare    
    We had to bring out a vet that was trained in brain wave work. The horse was taken to a large vet barn. They tied him and had wires on him, so they could see what his brain was doing when he want nuts. Strange looking set up. I am not a big fan of all the high training gimics that everyone and everybody gets into. You don't need a speciel training program to fix something. Anyway, I don't think its training.

    What does he do when he is tied? Does he just stand there and falls a sleep?..etc
    Yep. Or just looks around at everything. Here are some pics of him tied. He is tied every day at some point for one reason or another. As you can see, he doesnt look overly stressed about it at all. We are only about 10 minutes away from Mississippi State. I might call my vet (he is at the vet school) and see what he thinks and talk about doing that test you mentioned. How would you guarantee he went nuts though? What if they put the wires on him and it was a day where Drifter was fine?
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