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MAJOR tying problem. Please help

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        01-02-2013, 10:50 PM
      #31
    Banned
    And to add - I mentioned the episode to his previous owner in an email I had already been planning to send her, and her response was that if he had only done it today and once back in June than I was doing something right, because he did it every week with her. Apparently that is why she used nylon halters, because she was tired of the rope halters not breaking.

    So does that point to training then?

    Also, I have tried the "just looping the lead rope around" method before, and he pulls his head up and down until it loosens enough for him to do whatever it is he is wanting to do besides standing tied. Which means I had to go and get him every 3 minutes and re loop it. I stopped doing that because I was afraid it would feed into his desire to freak out in case he was doing it just to test his luck and see if he could get free.
         
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        01-02-2013, 10:53 PM
      #32
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DriftingShadow    
    When I witnessed him breaking his nylon halters with his previous owner, I thought he was just being an a** and had been able to get away with it. He would pull back just enough to make it snap, and then start grazing, looking for hay, that sort of thing. So the first thing I did when I got him was put him in a rope halter and began treating him as if he had never been tied. That seemed to take care of most of that problem except for these random episodes.

    I do not know of any head injuries. I have talked to his breeder and know that nothing occurred while he was in her care. She also said he had no tying problems when he was with her. He was often tied to her trailer because she used him as a barrel horse. He went through about 4 owners after they sold him however, so I do not know what happened during that 10 month period leading up to when his previous owner got him.

    When I saw him with his previous owner he looked just like a spoiled brat to me. I don't get that impression now however. As far as what he does now, I have not had him in a nylon halter since I bought him so I do not know what would happen if something were to break immediately. However, a few times he has snapped his lead rope and crashed backwards, and the fit continued for a few more seconds and then he got up like "my bad, I'm sorry. I'm cool now". People have told me before that I need to try and catch a video when he is going it but I am usually frozen. It's a horrifying thing to see. I am always afraid I am watching his last few moments, as melodramatic as that sounds.
    Oh no I know what you mean, there will always be times when you just have to get out of the way and wait for the storm to pass....and it always lasts longer than we would prefer.
    I would, and I will explain the reasoning behind this, is A) tie him in a nylon until he has another fit and see what happens when it breaks (because it will break within seconds) or B) tie him in the rope halter, but use a piece of baling twine tied to the post with a loop and thread his lead through it and tie....it will break virtually immediately too....the reason for this is I am thinking that before you got him he had a tying problem, but busted out of the flat nylons pretty much after a very brief struggle....the only thing that has changed as far as I can see is that you have used a role halter on him instead, which takes a while to break (increasing panic in the horse) if it breaks at all...

    .I would do this little experiment first, it's starting to sound like either 1. He wasn't ever taught to hard tie properly and has got away without major injury YET because he always had flat nylons on and now the game has changed and the rope halters don't give and it's sending him into a real dangerous panic....or 2. He's got a neurological problem going on.

    I would experiment before I call the vet and rule out the possibility of a hard tying issue....
    LisaG likes this.
         
        01-02-2013, 10:56 PM
      #33
    Foal
    Here is my two cents. The whinnying, the fact that he still throws himself even if he broke a lead, how he seems totally out of it - seizure. Now you are not with him all the time correct? He may be having them while you are not around and do not know it. Or the damage from him being a puller for so many years has done some damage to him and if he hits back with that rope halter in the right spot it causes him to go into a seizure. Pressure releases and he comes out of it or he comes out on his own and you need to get him out of the mess he got himself into.

    The only other thing that has me thinking that may be the cause is HYPP... is he tested and N/N for this?
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Elana and FaydesMom like this.
         
        01-02-2013, 10:59 PM
      #34
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Muppetgirl    
    Oh no I know what you mean, there will always be times when you just have to get out of the way and wait for the storm to pass....and it always lasts longer than we would prefer.
    I would, and I will explain the reasoning behind this, is A) tie him in a nylon until he has another fit and see what happens when it breaks (because it will break within seconds) or B) tie him in the rope halter, but use a piece of baling twine tied to the post with a loop and thread his lead through it and tie....it will break virtually immediately too....the reason for this is I am thinking that before you got him he had a tying problem, but busted out of the flat nylons pretty much after a very brief struggle....the only thing that has changed as far as I can see is that you have used a role halter on him instead, which takes a while to break (increasing panic in the horse) if it breaks at all...

    .I would do this little experiment first, it's starting to sound like either 1. He wasn't ever taught to hard tie properly and has got away without major injury YET because he always had flat nylons on and now the game has changed and the rope halters don't give and it's sending him into a real dangerous panic....or 2. He's got a neurological problem going on.

    I would experiment before I call the vet and rule out the possibility of a hard tying issue....
    Thanks muppetgirl. I appreciate it. I am curious as how I would go about dealing with tying issue since it is sporadic? My friend once captured a video of me flapping a tarp in his face when we first trying to see if it was a pull back issue, and he was like "what?". Or he would pull back and then give immediately. How do I work with a tying problem that is only there .00001 % of the time? Thanks for the help and information!
         
        01-02-2013, 11:02 PM
      #35
    Trained
    I've never had horses with this problem so I don't know what could help him. The most mine will do is just turn their head and if they feal that they're tied then they just stand there. I hope you can solve the problem. :)
         
        01-02-2013, 11:03 PM
      #36
    Foal
    I feel sorry for you DriftignShadow, I have never see a horse do that in all my life. I had a 4H horse that wrapped her head around her lead rope (only had about a foot from the post to her) and pulled back and freaked out. I almost had to cut the rope off of her but I managed to calm her down.

    Your situation is terrible. If I knew how to stop this I would help but I have no ideas. Like I said, I have never seen this before.
         
        01-02-2013, 11:05 PM
      #37
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by katieandscooby    
    Here is my two cents. The whinnying, the fact that he still throws himself even if he broke a lead, how he seems totally out of it - seizure. Now you are not with him all the time correct? He may be having them while you are not around and do not know it. Or the damage from him being a puller for so many years has done some damage to him and if he hits back with that rope halter in the right spot it causes him to go into a seizure. Pressure releases and he comes out of it or he comes out on his own and you need to get him out of the mess he got himself into.

    The only other thing that has me thinking that may be the cause is HYPP... is he tested and N/N for this?
    Posted via Mobile Device
    I initially thought seizure, but the more research I have done on those since June the more I don't think that is the case. It could be though and I will keep that in mind. But again, no he is not Impressive bred so he does not have HYPP. His QH line is Jet Deck. The other half is TB
         
        01-02-2013, 11:10 PM
      #38
    Weanling
    What I would do is call out the vet. Have him look him over, make sure there is no pain involved. Once he gives the all clear I would try the belly rope. Its something that should not be taken lightly as it can be dangerous if done wrong. Its the rope that goes around the girth, through his front legs and is tied to a post. That rope is tied shorter then the rope to his lead rope. You need to look up the knot for the belly rope. I can't seem to remember at this time. If that does not work, you can also this. I know it may seem a bit mean, but it does work for some horses. Once he starts his pull back, you need to get him to think about something else that's more scary or bites back more then pulling back. So once he pulls back, try using a wip and tap him on his back leg. Don't wack him with it. Just make a pop sound. I did this with a arab mare that pulled back every little chance she could get. She got away with braking everything and one day she pulled back and gave a nice little pop with the wip. She stooped look at me like "What happened" She did it again and I got her. A few times of this she never did it again.
         
        01-02-2013, 11:14 PM
      #39
    Foal
    Just as humans have varying brain chemistry making some people prone to different issues like depression, anxiety disorders, panic attacks, narcolepsy, etc. Why wouldn't horses be the same? Considering that your horse can stand tied for long periods and randomly panic hard enough to injure himself, I'd be very willing to consider some type of disorder.
         
        01-02-2013, 11:36 PM
      #40
    Banned
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jmdnarri    
    Just as humans have varying brain chemistry making some people prone to different issues like depression, anxiety disorders, panic attacks, narcolepsy, etc. Why wouldn't horses be the same? Considering that your horse can stand tied for long periods and randomly panic hard enough to injure himself, I'd be very willing to consider some type of disorder.
    It's interesting that you say this, because I have wondered and pondered the chemistry and it's 'balance' in horses for some time. I have been fortunate (or unfortunate!) enough to witness or be on the receiving end of some pretty inexplicable events.

    Infact it brings to mind one instance when I was in a tie stall with a pony that had been broke for about 9 months. It was about 13.hh and I had worked with it five days a week for about three months. It NEVER showed any signs of having a screw loose.....and on that particular day I brushed her, cleaned her hooves and then gently placed the saddle pad on her back (no soreness, we checked her thoroughly after) and she exploded and knocked me under her feet and spent about 30 seconds jumping all over me.....I worked alone at that job and thankfully a tradesman was at the barn and he heard the ruckus and came and got hold of the pony.......I sometimes wonder how long she would have spun out if someone didn't grab her????

    I run that incident through my mind sometimes and still cannot pinpoint why it happened......
    jmdnarri likes this.
         

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