Making excuses. - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 31 Old 03-22-2012, 05:42 PM
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I agee. I wouldn't put up with any of the bad horse behavior I saw at the barn where we used to ride. I have no respect for owners that don't set boundaries, and apparently horses don't either!
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post #12 of 31 Old 03-22-2012, 05:56 PM
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By the way speed racer, I know nothing about NH and I don't know where you are getting anything about me saying discipline, boundaries and punishment being cruel, so I have no idea what you are talking about. Where did you see me say anything about what you just said? I do agree with your first part though!

When I say reading your horse, I mean that you should be able to get an overall sense of the horse and why it is behaving the way it is, whether that is because he is just a jerk and yes there are a lot of horses who really are just jerks!, or not confident in something because of lack of experience or a bad experience, feeling good and energetic the list goes on. The better your sense of knowing why the horse is doing whatever it is doing and knowing when and how to correct it and with the appropriate feel and timing is very important, at least I think it is. I think this applies to any discipline.
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post #13 of 31 Old 03-23-2012, 09:13 AM
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The reason we always suggest pain first is because a lot of people are very new to horses and can't tell the difference between a horse trying to communicate discomfort and just being a jerk.

However, most horse problems are almost always the result of the owner doing something incorrectly. Whether it is not clearly communicating what they want, or not disciplining quickly or seriously enough.

I believe pain should always be ruled out first before a horse is punished. I don't want a horse to lose confidence in me as a leader because I was too bullheaded to make sure they were safe. They does not mean I baby my horses or believe in any magical nonsense. If my horse is being snarky, she's going to get in trouble for it and work.

Part of knowing it is not pain is developing a relationship with your horse and taking proper care of them. Not a magical union with your horse, but knowing your horse, their behaviors, their normal day to day selves so that you know when something is wrong, and always keep them up to date on feet and worming and feeding properly. Checking your horse daily for their physical state.

I don't think the problem is the whole NH phenomenon. I think the problem is horse owners not properly educating themselves and believing the first snake oil salesmen that comes along and waves a fancy halter and gear in their face. NH, when done properly, I agree with (My point is I only like a few of them, and there are quite a few I do not like).

Owning a horse and working with them properly takes a lot of freaking hard work. There is no way around it. There are no magical shortcuts.

I don't believe a horse should hurt me just because it is in pain either, but I'm not going to be a witch about it and push a horse when I know full well they are in pain and need proper treatment and rest. That is stupidity on my part and just asking for further injury to myself or my horse.
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If you are going to teach a horse something and have a good relationship, you don't make him learn it - you let him learn it.
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post #14 of 31 Old 03-23-2012, 09:23 AM
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HAMP, thank you for the explanation. I was afraid you were one of these people who buy into all the horsenality, 'train with lurve' BS. Since that's not the case, I completely agree with you.

The problem nowadays is that far too many people are buying into the hype, and don't think THEY actually need to learn how to read their own animals, since all the steps are laid out there in front of them.

Horses are individuals, and what works for one may not work for another. There is no cookie cutter training that will work for every animal, and unless someone has a feel for the animal's personality and what their hot buttons are, they can do more harm than good.

I can read my own horses very well. I can tell you within a millisecond whether one of them is off, feeling mischievous, or grumpy. It has everything to do with knowing my own animals and how they tick. Sadly, actual horsemanship seems to have been shunted to the wayside in pursuit of some mystical, all encompassing 'bond', where horsie and human are melded together emotionally and psychically.

Those bonds can and do happen, but it's time spent get to knowing your animal and sharing experiences, not some 'mystical' garbage that so many of these NH gurus are spouting.

Not every horse will bond with you, but that doesn't mean you can't have a great working relationship. I've seen people sell a perfectly nice horse because they couldn't bond with it the way they thought they needed to. Craziness!

You want the truth? You can't HANDLE the truth!
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post #15 of 31 Old 03-23-2012, 11:15 AM
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Preach it, SR !
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post #16 of 31 Old 03-23-2012, 11:40 AM
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Woohoo! This is wonderful! Like said, I believe the reason so many people automatically jump to 'physical pain' when giving advice here is because of one or more of these things -
* They can't see the horse actually doing what it is
* They don't know how to fix the problem, just want some more posts
* They can't judge the horsemanship of one over the computer, so they don't know if this person can tell the difference between bad manners or ouchie. <= Biggie for me.

But it is ridiculous that people excuse things for pain - I fell into the trap some years ago. I thought my horse was bucking rearing, bolting, etc. because he was in pain. We had a trainer come in, tell me straight, put that horse in line, made ME put that horse in line, and we never had another problem. Looking back at the signs he gave (we sold him a while ago) I realise now that that horser was just flat disrespectful. Period.

Now I understand it is pain sometimes. Cowboy started throwing his head and pinning ever so often undersaddle. This was not him, at all. I put an extra pad on his back, assuming it could be his ridiculously high withers, and never had the problem again. There is a happy medium - you have to find it.
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post #17 of 31 Old 03-23-2012, 11:52 AM
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In all my years with horses I have seen maybe three horses that were misbehaving solely because of physical issues. In 90% of cases a chiropractor and a dentist and a saddle fitter (I've never even met a saddle fitter) are going to help you spend a bunch of money on a horse you still won't be able to ride.

Horses are never "just jerks". They don't work that way. A horse does what it thinks it has to do to be comfortable and survive. They don't bully you because they think they can. They bully you because they want to be comfortable and stay with thier buddies at the barn. Horses don't consider your feelings at all until it effects thier survival or comfort. Most people don't have the bond they think they have with thier horses. Thier horses are spoiled and walk all over them and inexperienced people take that for affection and allow it. Then they wonder why "all of a sudden" fluffy doesn't respect them any more.
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post #18 of 31 Old 03-23-2012, 11:54 AM
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I've been around the block a few times but when I had my horse for a trial period before purchase she was a bucker at the canter, not bad but entry level. The owner swore she never did that before.
I had her checked by a vet, farrier & chiropractor & all was well. So once I ruled out pain I became her new pain & she no longer bucks.
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post #19 of 31 Old 03-23-2012, 11:59 AM
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So as you have already noticed, I do not have a way with words, lol, my thoughts never really seem to come out the way I would like them to!

I probably shouldn't have said that I know nothing about NH, I know enough about it to know the difference between the hype and b.s. And the good common sense part of it.

To me the common sense part of it really should be called just good horsemanship regardless of what discipline one chooses to do with their horse.

I totally agree with what Foxhunter was saying, I pressed the like button right away! I also agree with Speed Racers comment above.

I beleive in good old basic common sense old fashioned horsemanship.

I was only trying to point out the the problems people are having with their horses stem from the fact that they do not know how to read their horses, they can't tell the difference in a horse who is behaving badly because of a pain related issue, disrespect or if it is just truly feeling good! If they are having trouble doing that how are they going to even start to know the right way to go about solving the problems, and the correct feel and timing has everything to do with how to go about delivering the correction to the horse.

Anyway, I hope I am making more sense this time! Lol!
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post #20 of 31 Old 03-23-2012, 12:03 PM
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Some people hear "A horse might buck when its back hurts" and take it as "when a horse bucks, its back hurts". They like to swap facts around and make them absolute.
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