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Mare Wants to Kill Me...

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  • I'm afraid of getting hurt by a horse in a round pen
  • How to stop horse turning round to kick you

 
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    02-27-2011, 04:10 PM
  #11
Yearling
Tom Dorrance use to say that "you have to get the horse on your side".
I had some trouble understanding what he meant by that until I had a horse like you are describing.

It is not enough to just run them around in a circle.
They have to have (for lack of better words) some kind of purpose to it or find the joy in it.

They get stuck and there is not a whole lot you can do to unstick them.
They have learned to evade by just stopping.
The more pressure you put on them the more they leave until you have nothing to work with.

I had a horse here that the owner had tried to use a backhoe to load him in a trailer and the horse still did not move.

I would suggest starting alllll over and work on what you can get done and take as long as it takes.

It is going to be harder than starting a fresh colt out of the wild and you need a lot of time.

I got the horse loading but it took 5 times longer than any other horse.
     
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    02-27-2011, 04:20 PM
  #12
Green Broke
Ok. You have to make sure you stay committed and consistent. Start over in the round pen. The whip is Only an extension of your hand. If you are not getting the desired movement you will need to pop her on the butt. Remember, in a herd its teeth (grabs skin can make her bleed) or a kick (self explanatory). You tell me what would be gentler? Whip that you pop on her butt or kicking or biting? A horse sees a leader when they are made to move.

There's strength in that language. Just what the animal is looking for. The horse won't follow a weaker animal but will follow the stronger one. You need to be that strong leader.

Make her feet move. But only make her feet move the direction you tell her! If she tries to turn a different direction, that's when your whip comes in handy. Its a bite. You also need to know how and where to position your body to the horses body.

Do you have you done this before?
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    02-27-2011, 04:33 PM
  #13
Super Moderator
Dear Frog,

Is this mare turned out with the other horses? Is she dominant or subordinant in the herd? Is she defensive of herself in any other way, such as does she pin her ears when you approach, or put the saddle on or try to lead her? Do you get the feeling she is trying to "do unto you before she you do unto her?"

I mean, is her kicking a self defense mechanism or do your really think she wants to attack you? If so, wouldn't she have charged you and wouldn't some of her kicks hit home?

I think (and this is not my idea but is based on reading I have done. So that means it is just theory as far as I know from personal experience and take it for that only) . .. That she feels very much pressured and needing to defend herself , pretty much all the time. This is probably as a result of the overly high pressure techniques used by that trainer.
She is now in self defense mode, because she thinks she has no other options.
What Imight do is take her into the round pen and do . . . Nothing.

Don't press her at all. Let her look all around the pen, looking for help, just stay there and hope that she may turn and see you as the calmest, nicest place to be. If you need to , move her away from the gate, and if she kicks do nothing (except stay clear) don't increase the pressure on her at all. Ask her to move a little, if she takes off kicking and bucking . . Do nothing.
If she zones out and starts to run around and around, let her do it for 5 or 6 trips, then just interupt her and change the direction by stepping into her path.
You just keep turning around , stay facing her as she circles, but keep you body in a nuetral frame. If she cocks an ear on you or looks at you like she would likd to come in, take one small step away, back, and see if she draws in.
Relieve the pressure the tiniest amount any time she looks at you , BUT, if she turns suddenly and charges in at you too fast., put your hands up firmly and stop her. She needs to be invited in and needs to come in peacefully.

If you get her to stop bucking and look at you but won't come, you go up to her, pet her then walk away. She may hook on. If she does, take a short walk around the pen, somemore petting and quit!

Just see if the feel isn't different if you go into the round pen with her with your idea to be the calmest, steadiest place there is, not to add to her pressure. If she kicks and bucks and you do nothining and she does nothing but kick/buck and makes no change in attitude, then nothing is lost by at least trying this.
     
    02-27-2011, 04:43 PM
  #14
Foal
Marecare - Thank you so much for your advice. After reading several of the responses here, I think I need to combine most of them to form her new training plan.

Mbender - Yep. I have done this before, but I've been lucky. My others were easy peasy learners and really good listeners. I've never had one that's fought me like this.

Tinyliny - Wow. You know, I never even thought about that. That is a really excellent idea. I think I'll try that, in conjunction with some of the other ideas posted here, to work with her. It's funny how you hear that it's all about pressure and you don't stop to think that maybe you should start with none...lol Thanks!
     
    02-27-2011, 04:46 PM
  #15
Green Broke
To get her to move forward your body needs to be behind her drive line, ( about the hip more towards her butt). Point the direction and ask her to move out. The whip is just a reinforcement of your asking. Keep her going in the same direction until you want to change sides.

Step in front of the drive line ( shoulders. Mid neck) she should stop and turn. If not, show her with a point and reinforce with whip. You may not need to use that whip at all. Depends on her. If she doesn't turn pop her on her shoulder. She should actually turn into the circle not away. If at anytime she tries to run through your request, you stay on her and make her move the direction you asked.

Don't let her stop on her own! You are leader and when you feel its time for her to stop then its ok for her to stop. I have more but need to make sure you understand what I am telling you first.
I know I'm missing some things here but I'm sure someone will add and clean it up.
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    02-27-2011, 05:13 PM
  #16
Started
Fear Around Horses 101:

I'd forget about trying to make her do anything right now, because you're afraid she's going to kick you, & though you try not to show it, she knows (horses know!) Her knowing will cause her to take over, because you're not leader anymore.

No shame in being afraid of getting hurt, in fact you should be afraid in that situation (your brain is telling you that you don't have the skill at present to deal with it, so get out of the round pen! :)) but the solution is never to fake it till you make it, with horses!

You want to get a 12' lead rope on her, to bring her head toward you to control the hind (move it away from you). Your fear will subside significantly, & then you can proceed to present her with a "good feel" of helpfulness & leadership, & build on that till you can confidently round pen her.
     
    02-27-2011, 05:48 PM
  #17
Yearling
Correct me if I'm wrong anyone, as I am pretty new to horses myself, but when she bucks in the round pen you need to get after her more and make her move her feet, enforcing that bucking is always going to lead to more work. I have a tiny little arab that loves to buck when I ask her for a little more, and it used to scare the crap out of me. So as a result my natural reaction would be to back off and give her her space. Come to find out that was completely wrong, and just common sense really.
I also had a huge problem in the round pen with her wanting out and refusing to go in even one circle. It was so frustrating until a neighbor that trains her own horses told me to put her on a long line. That's how we do the round pen now so that I can keep her head turned in and the attention on me.
If you are watching Clinton Anderson I do believe he talks about both of these things.
     
    02-28-2011, 09:05 AM
  #18
Green Broke
How is this going for you?
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    02-28-2011, 09:24 AM
  #19
Green Broke
She might be stressed from her training experience and now have ulcers which can make them cranky and more apt to kick.
     
    02-28-2011, 09:32 AM
  #20
Green Broke
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbender    
To get her to move forward your body needs to be behind her drive line, ( about the hip more towards her butt). Point the direction and ask her to move out. The whip is just a reinforcement of your asking. Keep her going in the same direction until you want to change sides.

Step in front of the drive line ( shoulders. Mid neck) she should stop and turn. If not, show her with a point and reinforce with whip. You may not need to use that whip at all. Depends on her. If she doesn't turn pop her on her shoulder. She should actually turn into the circle not away. If at anytime she tries to run through your request, you stay on her and make her move the direction you asked.

Don't let her stop on her own! You are leader and when you feel its time for her to stop then its ok for her to stop. I have more but need to make sure you understand what I am telling you first.
I know I'm missing some things here but I'm sure someone will add and clean it up.
Posted via Mobile Device
When you stop her, stop her on the opposite side as the entrance. If she tries to stop at the entrance make her move.

I have to disagree with the part of her running past when you want her to change directions. Mainly for my own safety, I don't want to be run over. I would let her go by but the next time around I would use more force/energy to change her direction. This is if you are not using a lunge or lead rope on her. If you are, I would bump and jerk the rope while using the whip until she turns and not let her go past.
     

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buck, lunge, rear, round pen, training

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