Mare Wants to Kill Me... - Page 3
 
 

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Mare Wants to Kill Me...

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        02-28-2011, 10:37 AM
      #21
    Weanling
    You've got some good advise here. I would not do anything with her other than caring for her for (it depends on the horse) maybe 3 months. Spend time just hanging around her, lightly touching her, and that's about it. Of course, gently asking for her feet to clean and trim, feeding her but these things go without saying. I think you'll get further if you first do that and forget all notions of getting any kind of progress in human terms. You have to build rapport. If she tries to kick you in the paddock then I would not confront her. I would watch her body language very closely and actually retreat before she decides to lash out. Then I would slowly move back to where you see she's comfortable and then leave it for the day. This works so well and at the end she will love you so much. This will equate to her respecting you and doing all that you ask - to please you. Then you will be safe.
         
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        02-28-2011, 02:05 PM
      #22
    Green Broke
    I do agree with almost everything already said BUT, whenever I do work with a horse that is going through these problems, such as kicking, biting, rearing..I would rather give them a few pops on the butt with a whip than risk getting myself hurt (because, then who is going to help the horse?? Not you if you got kicked in the face trying to stand there and be nice)..in a herd horses will be bitten, kicked, chased, and whatever else the dominate horse can do to prove they are top horse. I would be careful with her and let her have the option to be nice and come to you, if not..pop.

    I would do ALOT of work in the round pen and tinyliny couldn't have given better advice for that. I'm just not going to let a horse come in on me in the round pen, kick at me, and be agressive towards me..I WILL whack it if it tries. I'm not saying beat it around the round pen but ANY hint of "I'm going to try to get you" will get a whack and it's more of just a surprise like "OH hey! She means business" whack..

    I don't like to back off from a horse when they are being agressive because it's like you're encouraging that behavior..horse thinks "hey I did that and she left me alone.."..person tried it again and horse kicks " ohh. I did it again and she left me alone! I'm training my person.."
         
        02-28-2011, 06:05 PM
      #23
    Weanling
    I guess it depends how the horse is acting. Is it defensive or aggressive. It is so hard to say what to do in this situation if you can't see the horse. If she's been handled rough then kicking could be defensive and then giving her whack might make it worse especially if it is not impeccably timed.

    But I do take your point. I too would not want to be kicked etc - I always defend my space.
         
        02-28-2011, 07:56 PM
      #24
    Started
    Right, TLO, & also, if you're afraid, which means the horse knows it, & you push yourself to spank horse at liberty, it's very likely that the horse will retaliate.

    Not that the horse is vicious, but horse'll just take over as with another horse, not thinking about how frail our human bodies are.
         
        02-28-2011, 08:18 PM
      #25
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheLovedOne    
    You've got some good advise here. I would not do anything with her other than caring for her for (it depends on the horse) maybe 3 months. Spend time just hanging around her, lightly touching her, and that's about it. Of course, gently asking for her feet to clean and trim, feeding her but these things go without saying. I think you'll get further if you first do that and forget all notions of getting any kind of progress in human terms. You have to build rapport. If she tries to kick you in the paddock then I would not confront her. I would watch her body language very closely and actually retreat before she decides to lash out. Then I would slowly move back to where you see she's comfortable and then leave it for the day. This works so well and at the end she will love you so much. This will equate to her respecting you and doing all that you ask - to please you. Then you will be safe.
    This is a little scary, and could most definitely get a person seriously hurt. By doing the above, you are showing the horse that they are in control. You are not showing it that you love it, you are showing it that you are subordinate.
    You need respect from the horse, and *****footing around the horse isn't going to do either of you a lick of good. *****footing around and retreating at the exact wrong moment, and showing the horse that you're not going to be a leader in their lives is liable to get you badly hurt.
    This response really reminds me of Parelli's idea to feed a biting horse carrots every time it bites, to show it love and show it that you care about it, instead of getting after the horse for biting.
    When a horse kicks at another horse in the pasture it means "GET AWAY NOW." You are the human, you are supposed to be (for argument's sake) equal to the horse, if not more important (I stand by more important/the boss, but I digress) - by backing down to a kicking horse you are saying "you're more important to me/you are above me" - horses like this become a danger to handle.
    Relate this to completely human terms: There's a witchy person that you work with at the office who constantly degrades you and gives you more work to do because she thinks she's more important than you. You decide to play along, and assume the role of the subordinate. She does not go "oh, what a nice human being, I think I love her and will treat her like my equal" - no, she piles on more work, and degrades you more because you're an easy target; she knows she has you beat.

    You need to get the horse to respect you. Respect isn't going to come by playing the subordinate.

         
        02-28-2011, 08:18 PM
      #26
    Green Broke
    Yes, I absolutely agree with Thelovedone..its really hard to tell without seeing it firsthand. If it is a defensive kick or she doesn't trust you, I wouldn't be in the round pen working her. It should be all about just spending time with her and gaining that bond and trust before you ask her to really work for you. You both have to be confident with eachother and trust eachother to make a good team. . Its really hard to decide what advice to give..I didn't mean my earlier post to come across as just pop her everytime she kicks even if it is just a defensive kick..or a happy "I feel good" kick..
    Posted via Mobile Device
         
        02-28-2011, 08:57 PM
      #27
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JustDressageIt    
    This is a little scary, and could most definitely get a person seriously hurt. By doing the above, you are showing the horse that they are in control.
    I can see how you would think that. I can assure that is not what would happen if this is done correctly. Hitting a horse can get you hurt just as quickly if not quicker.

    I wouldn't be so sure of my ideas if were you justdressageit - the tone actually communicates something to me.
         
        02-28-2011, 08:58 PM
      #28
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DrumRunner    
    Yes, I absolutely agree with Thelovedone..its really hard to tell without seeing it firsthand. If it is a defensive kick or she doesn't trust you, I wouldn't be in the round pen working her. It should be all about just spending time with her and gaining that bond and trust before you ask her to really work for you. You both have to be confident with eachother and trust eachother to make a good team. . Its really hard to decide what advice to give..I didn't mean my earlier post to come across as just pop her everytime she kicks even if it is just a defensive kick..or a happy "I feel good" kick..
    Posted via Mobile Device
    I agree. It is so hard to use words isn't it.
         
        02-28-2011, 09:00 PM
      #29
    Weanling
    I just wanted to offer another perspective and what I describe is really a fairly advanced method. I think you might have to see it in order to appreciate it fully. I learned it from a guy who worked with Tom Dorrance. I actually had to think about what he did for a few days before I got it.
         
        02-28-2011, 09:42 PM
      #30
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TheLovedOne    
    I can assure that is not what would happen if this is done correctly.
    The problem is, you described it in a way that makes it hard to 'do correctly.'

    I do agree that earning the horses general trust should be one of the first things, but you made it seem like you can earn trust without earning respect. Trust and respect have to go hand in hand.

    By saying that you would watch the horse's body language and retreat if you saw any signs of bucking, you are enforcing the idea in the horse's mind that he or she is in the lead. It's not exactly the same situation, but think about it this way: if you are out hiking, and you come across some predatory animal, such as a cougar or a bear or a pack of wolves, it is usually a better idea to throw out your arms and legs, and become 'bigger' and 'meaner.' If you give that predatory animal the lee-way and start to retreat, or even worse, start to run, you might as well have a big "Free Hamburger" sign on the back of your shirt. It's going to chase you, and very likely eat you. So in the world of horses, backing down right before s/he bucks or attacks is like saying "I'm paying very close attention to you, and I realized I've just pissed you off, so now I'm going to back away because I'm afraid of you and you are bigger and meaner and stronger than me."

    It would be more appropriate to back off when she is showing *good* signs, not bad signs. Like they say, "end every lesson on a good note," this should be ended on a good note, too. If she acts like she's going to buck, or charge, she needs to be shown that that is not acceptable, typically by making *her* move away. If she shows interest, moves a bit closer, keeps an ear cocked toward you, or even just lets you get a step closer than the day before without running off or attacking, that's where you end the lesson. That's where you back off.

    To the OP: In the round pen, for the first few days, aye, don't ask her to do anything. She does, apparently, seem to have developed some fear of it. If most of the 'training' she received was in the round pen, she has every right to be afraid. To her, being in a round pen could be synonymous to being beaten. Give her some sort of food in the round pen, maybe a handful of grain in a bucket or a flake of hay. Leave it for her at the other end of the pen, away from the gate. She has to be able to think of the round pen as a safe place.

    When you start working with her, keep in mind that she should never turn her butt to you. She should always turn *into* the circle and not change direction (when you ask for a change of direction, of course) by turning her butt to you and her head to the fence. Putting a lunge line on her can help with this, you just have to give it a good bump any time she starts to pay attention to what is going on outside the pen. Something to watch for is when she puts her head down, makes a chewing motion with her mouth, and keeps an ear cocked to you. This is when you can ease up, ask her to come in toward you (at a walk, of course!) because this is when she is saying "Ok, got the point. You have my attention, and you are obviously a better place to be than out here, because out here I have to keep moving."

    Also, never let her stop by the gate. The gate is of no concern when lunging. Ask her to stop in random locations. Also, incorporating words when leading her can help in the lunging process, too.

    With my gelding, the first thing I taught him was that when I say "Walk" and give a tug on the lead, he needs to walk with me. Then I taught him that "Woah" means stop, "Easy" means slow down, "back up" obviously means back up. I carried them over to the lunging, and now when I say "woah" even when he's cantering around the pen, he throws his back legs under him and slides to a stop, and "easy" tells him to take his canter down to a trot, and saying "trot" takes him down to a trot, and telling him to go back into a canter will take him there, too. I hardly have need of a whip at all, though I do carry one to give him some encouragement to listen when he doesn't want to, in which all I do slap the ground and progressively get closer until he moves.

    At first, he wouldn't want to move away from me when I asked him to, and if I'd gotten close and he still wasn't moving, I increased the pressure by tapping him with the whip, and every three or four taps, making it a bit harder. He would move off within a second or two, didn't want to stick around for that.

    Anyways. Good luck. I hope to hear that all is going better soon! Ach... this came out much longer than I intended!
         

    Tags
    buck, lunge, rear, round pen, training

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