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Maybe a stupid question

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        12-21-2011, 04:32 PM
      #21
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BravadoThePony    
    How so?
    Sorry but I didn't understand What do you mean asking "how so?" ?
         
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        12-21-2011, 04:37 PM
      #22
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Speed Racer    
    If all you want to do is plod around and never teach your horse properly, keep using a halter and lead lines.

    It's like trying to do delicate, close work while wearing gloves. The bit isn't a torture device, it's used for communication between horse and rider.
    Boxing gloves
         
        12-21-2011, 04:41 PM
      #23
    Foal
    Thats fine unless you paln on showing... I would use a bit every now and then tho so ur horse doesnt get to used to a halter and stops wanting to take the bit, just incase you decide you want to show one day
         
        12-21-2011, 08:52 PM
      #24
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Speed Racer    
    If all you want to do is plod around and never teach your horse properly, keep using a halter and lead lines.

    It's like trying to do delicate, close work while wearing gloves. The bit isn't a torture device, it's used for communication between horse and rider.
    I think I am going to disagree.

    It is very possible to perfect fineness, and precision with no bit. I will admit it might not be as easy, without direct communication to the mouth, but it sure is possible, depending on the rider.

    I leave wearing a bit-less bridle, or a bit, up to my horse. If he responds to one better, that is what I train in.

    It is also very possible to to do more than just "plod around" while wearing a halter. Amazing things can be done on horses, without a bridle, or halter on.

    IMO, if the horse is good in one, like, if he responds to bit-less better than bit for instance, then he will be more precise with bitless, then with a bit. Again, it depends on the horse and rider.

    I'm sure you have seen some riders ride a horse without anything on them, and you watch as they do spins, immediate stops, galloping, to cantering, to trotting, all without any bit in their mouth. THAT takes more precision than anything.

    Horses that are rode without anything on them, like a bridle, or bit, actually have to follow the riders cues 100% to do the exercises, they don't need to rely on a bit to tell them what to do.
         
        12-21-2011, 10:12 PM
      #25
    Green Broke
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Legend    
    I think I am going to disagree.

    It is very possible to perfect fineness, and precision with no bit. I will admit it might not be as easy, without direct communication to the mouth, but it sure is possible, depending on the rider.

    I leave wearing a bit-less bridle, or a bit, up to my horse. If he responds to one better, that is what I train in.

    It is also very possible to to do more than just "plod around" while wearing a halter. Amazing things can be done on horses, without a bridle, or halter on.

    IMO, if the horse is good in one, like, if he responds to bit-less better than bit for instance, then he will be more precise with bitless, then with a bit. Again, it depends on the horse and rider.

    I'm sure you have seen some riders ride a horse without anything on them, and you watch as they do spins, immediate stops, galloping, to cantering, to trotting, all without any bit in their mouth. THAT takes more precision than anything.

    Horses that are rode without anything on them, like a bridle, or bit, actually have to follow the riders cues 100% to do the exercises, they don't need to rely on a bit to tell them what to do.
    True, but I guarentee they were rode with a bit before the point of riding bridless.

    Even Stacey Westfall rode her horse that she was famous for riding without a saddle or bridle with all the above before she rode without.
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        12-22-2011, 10:30 AM
      #26
    Foal
    I heard that Nevzorov doesn't ride horses, but in the past he did. Then he did it without anything on their heads (just with a string around their neck I guess). He rode then very well...
    And I think there is two different things in this discussion. First about riding with halter and second about riding without a bit in general.
    In my opinion bit isn't necessary. But I must admit that halter isn't the very precise tool for communication.
    Quote:
    The bit isn't a torture device, it's used for communication between horse and rider.
    It's obvious that if we put a bit in a horse's pasture it doesn't hurt the horse. It's all up to the person using it. But too many people use it not enough gently.
         
        12-22-2011, 05:20 PM
      #27
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by COWCHICK77    
    True, but I guarentee they were rode with a bit before the point of riding bridless.

    Even Stacey Westfall rode her horse that she was famous for riding without a saddle or bridle with all the above before she rode without.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    Haha, Stacy was actually the person I was referring to. But, even if she did start training in a bit, I guarantee people can come up with the same results, starting bitless.
         
        12-22-2011, 05:26 PM
      #28
    Weanling
    You can use a bitless bridle? One of our old mares was trained that way, and she did great.
         
        12-22-2011, 11:10 PM
      #29
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by farmpony84    
    If you are deadset against a bit then you could try a hackamore but those can be way more harsh then a bit depending on the rider....
    I totally agree. My horse's old owner rode him in a hackamore. His philosophy was: ''If you can't get a horse to do what you want him to do without a bit in his mouth, you have no business riding that horse.'' I'm not even kidding. I don't see how he rode Joker, since he was a huge brat that just threw his head in the air and ignored what you asked of him. After working with him for 90+ days almost every day, with a bit that fit his training level he turned into a much more respectful, and better trained horse. It's too easy for horses to run through hackamores, and my trainer said that when you pull back on the reins, it cuts off their air. Wether or not this is true, I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was.
         
        12-22-2011, 11:42 PM
      #30
    Foal
    I disagree with the "must have" for a bit. I agree that halter may not be the best choice to achieve higher levels of training but it can be a good starter tool - a roper halter is what I start off using and advance further as I want to advance further training.

    You can achieve percesion, fineness, and collection without the use of a bit. These things don't happen because of the bit. Collection and "headset" are achieved when the horse is working from back to front. Collection isn't a result of the pressure in the horses mouth - you can ask with your hands and regardless if that pressure is from a bit, a neck rope or bitless bridle - its seat and legs that matter and headset will come naturally when you truly achieve collection. You can have a false headset in any set-up.

    It is true a lot of horses in higher levels you see bitless may have been trained with bits prior to using the bitless set-up of their choice. But can we really assume the horse will respond the same, and achieve the same level of control, suppleness or movements that it did in a bit? The bitless set-up (assuming that one is being used) will provide pressure over different areas compared to the bit and will require some degree of training for that horse to respond to that.

    This is just my opinion but I think people see a bit as a method of better communication because it rests in an area of more sensitive tissue, therefore you can get a ... faster? I don't know if faster is the word, or if better would be a more correct word to use. A faster result? A "better" result? Whereas a bitless bridle, halter or whatever you wish to discuss is using pressure distrubited over the bridge of the nose and poll. I think tradition as well as comfort over level of control also play a role in the bitless debate.

    Youtube is a great source to watch some of these videos... there are those of Stacy Westfall, dressage riders, eventers, show jumpers all using some sort of bitless set-up and achieving the same result. So ... it must be possible.

    I myself have an Quarter Horse, he is a very unique little guy, he's not an easy ride. He is a horse who knows he is stronger then a human and will take advantage of you and just take off with you. He gets very strong and fast. I've had this horse for 5 years and I ride him in a halter, Dr.Cook bitless bridle or with a french link snaffle. He will never be able to achieve ideal collection or more advanced movements because comformationally he is not built for it and its difficult for him to achieve - regardless of the set-up he is ridden in. However, he is soft, supple, working off his hindend better then he use to, and most importantly - controllable - even when he starts thinking otherwise regardless of the set-up he is ridden in with me.

    To the OP, there are no stupid questions. You should ride your horse in what YOU feel comfortable with. If you plan to show you may want to consider a bit. If you want to achieve bitless then I think that is GREAT! Start out in a simple halter if that's what you enjoy doing. If you want to be more advanced then just casual riding with your horse then seek out a trainer who can help you and your horse advance riding bitless. Investigate into a bitless set up your horse will be comfortable in, borrow a few if you can. Find a trainer/coach to help you bring your horse along bitless if you can, especially if you wish to achieve more complex movements in a certain discipline.

    Just my two cents :)
         

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