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Moving Forward?

This is a discussion on Moving Forward? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        11-23-2009, 01:15 PM
      #11
    Trained
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SavvyHearts    
    I will be the one to disagree with everyone, that force is not needed, it's motivation that your horse needs.

    Hitting the horse on the rump with reins or a whip or spurring them in the sides will work, but it's called a quick fix. You want your horse to want to trot when you want them to...not to be forced to when you want to :)
    My horse is motivated by the desire to be comfortable. If he would rather walk than be comfortable then he has the choice to keep walking while I wack him on the butt. He outweighs me by several hundred pounds so I have no way of forcing him to move faster short of tieing him to my pickup. I'm making the wrong thing difficult(uncomfortable) and the right thing easy.
         
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        11-23-2009, 03:39 PM
      #12
    Green Broke
    Thanks a ton guys, today went MUCH smoother. She's still quite pokey, but that's just part of who she is so I don't think I can expect her to move out so easily as my Arab likes to. She was listening beautifully today, I took a crop along. She moved into her trot nicely when asked, but about the fourth stride she was slowing down and ignoring my leg - I gave her a prod, gave her a bump and then gave her a tap. I only had to give her a sound whack with it once (lol, she's really not concerned by taps) and then I was able to keep her moving forward nicely at the jog with just my leg, doing turns and serpentines with the same general tempo. I did lots of transitions with her as well, and she's moving INTO the jog so much nicer now, just a soft pressure of the leg and a cluck. So I was very very happy with her progress today, no unannounced halts because she felt like it! I made sure I had the timing of my crop down so that I didn't allow her time to actually stop, just reinforce the leg command that we WERE doing this. Worked fantastic - thanks again!
         
        11-23-2009, 04:15 PM
      #13
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SavvyHearts    
    What motivates your horse? Treats? Play point to point...set up different things in the arena, whether they be tires, barrels or whatever and place treats to them. First ask her to walk to a couple. When she gets there, she gets a treat...motivation for her to go...then try a trot.
    I have never used this technique, would you be able to answer a question for me please?
    If you use a treat as a motivator, and your horse gets to point A, wouldn't you have to stop to give the treat, which makes stopping=treat in the horse's mind? Same with trot and canter.. if walking to point A and stopping gets the horse a treat, how do you reward a faster pace?
    Again, I've never used this method, so please excuse my ignorance, I'm curious as to how it all connects :) Thanks in advance!
         
        11-23-2009, 04:17 PM
      #14
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacabreMikolaj    
    Thanks a ton guys, today went MUCH smoother. She's still quite pokey, but that's just part of who she is so I don't think I can expect her to move out so easily as my Arab likes to. She was listening beautifully today, I took a crop along. She moved into her trot nicely when asked, but about the fourth stride she was slowing down and ignoring my leg - I gave her a prod, gave her a bump and then gave her a tap. I only had to give her a sound whack with it once (lol, she's really not concerned by taps) and then I was able to keep her moving forward nicely at the jog with just my leg, doing turns and serpentines with the same general tempo. I did lots of transitions with her as well, and she's moving INTO the jog so much nicer now, just a soft pressure of the leg and a cluck. So I was very very happy with her progress today, no unannounced halts because she felt like it! I made sure I had the timing of my crop down so that I didn't allow her time to actually stop, just reinforce the leg command that we WERE doing this. Worked fantastic - thanks again!
    Sounds like you had a good ride! I'm very glad to hear it!
         
        11-23-2009, 04:32 PM
      #15
    Yearling
    Ive done what the majority of others said to do with Oscar. Squeeze, if he doesnt go kick, if he doesnt go tap. He's now jumping off my leg and it makes both of us happier! I put my outside leg just behind the girth without and pressure and he knows that means canter!

    Also if you get your horse really fit, like eventing fit then they'll be really full of themselves so its a lot easier to get them going off your leg
         
        11-23-2009, 04:56 PM
      #16
    Showing
    That's great, I am glad that you had a good ride. As quick as she is, it shouldn't be very long before she is moving off of the slightest leg pressure. Great job .
         
        11-23-2009, 05:04 PM
      #17
    Green Broke
    Oh, and I totally forgot my other very proud moment - we opened a gate! Heh heh, this "enjoying whoa" thing is very handy! She's still unused to leg pressure (we're working on it, she was slowly starting to listen to me a bit today going into corners and moving away from my leg a bit), so it took a couple passes to bring her alongside the gate like I wanted but it's a funky gate with a rope and a latch way down past her chest level. I asked her to whoa and she stood stock still for me to lean waaaaay down and grab the latch to undo it. A tiny milestone, but still very proud that she was unconcerned about me being so "weird" in the saddle! Yesterday Shay-la opened the round pen gate on her (rode her for the first time!) which is a wire across the top with a handle, as well as a log placed across the top rail so Shay-la had to grab the wire handle, and fling it to the side, as well as grab the log and have it drop quite heavily in front of her. She didn't bat an eyelash, stood totally still, no concern about the log dropping at her feet!
         
        11-23-2009, 06:27 PM
      #18
    Started
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SavvyHearts    
    To me it sounds just like what my trail horse used to be like...he needed motivation and I wasn't finding what motivated him.
    I will be the one to disagree with everyone, that force is not needed, it's motivation that your horse needs.

    What motivates your horse? Treats? Play point to point...set up different things in the arena, whether they be tires, barrels or whatever and place treats to them. First ask her to walk to a couple. When she gets there, she gets a treat...motivation for her to go...then try a trot. If you don't have barrels or whatever, a friend is great to use. Have your friend go to random parts in the arena and just stand there, ask your horse to trot to her..if she trots with little to no effort on your part, and at least goes half way, reward for that, then start being more demanding. "Ok I know you can trot and you get the game, how about now we trot all the way with little to no effort".

    Hitting the horse on the rump with reins or a whip or spurring them in the sides will work, but it's called a quick fix. You want your horse to want to trot when you want them to...not to be forced to when you want to :)

    My trail horse now, the second I raise my energy, he matches that energy, whether it be the energy for a trot, or canter. We played point to point for a couple months at each gate until he was just able to match energy
    I completely agree with this Point to point exercises with unmotivated horses is a GREAT thing to do.
         
        11-23-2009, 06:32 PM
      #19
    Started
    A treat can be an actual treat, grazing, and it can be resting. Horses like this LOVE to stop lol. Usually when you stop at Point A you have already set a treat up (like on the fence, on a barrel, etc) so the horse can find it, you don't actually give it to him. The point is to make the horse see that there IS something IN IT FOR HIM at the end of where you want to go.....a treat, a grazing spot, a really good scratch on an itchy place, or a good rest. When the horse sees that there is something in it for him, he will offer more effort because he feels motivated to do so....so if you are playing with the walk in Point to Point, he will offer a faster walk, maybe even a trot, because he'll start thinking "The sooner I get to where she wants to go, the sooner I get to stop!"...or graze, or get a scratch, whatever.
         
        11-23-2009, 06:42 PM
      #20
    Green Broke
    I enjoy certain aspects of natural horsemanship, but to be honest, I expect my horse to do something because I asked him, not because I bribed him. She gets 23 hours a day to wallow in luxury, being fed the choicest hay and grasses, enjoying random treats and constant scratches. She can darn well suck it up and listen to me for the brief hour I actually ask her to do something aside from eat and poop.

    I also have zero desire for my already food obsessive filly to start attacking fence lines in hopes of treats. She gets scratches, my voice and my boot removed from her ass when she does something good. I'm sure your method can work wonders, but it's not a method I feel I should have any obligation to perform. My filly already has a very high opinion of herself without learning she never has to do a thing if she doesn't get a treat. I understand what you're saying about the scratches, but quite frankly, I'd be tickled pink to see you come down here and convince Jynx that getting scratched is totally worth jogging for five minutes.

    I can understand your way of thinking, but considering it was that exact way of thinking that turned her into such a dangerously spoiled animal, I'm loath to follow that path.
         

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