The Horse Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

Much More Serious Problem - KICKING! - Your Thoughts?

2K views 18 replies 12 participants last post by  Daisy25 
#1 ·
As you know - I've been working with a horse that's been spoiled rotten...

The other day, I successfully walked her down - took me about an hour....but it worked! So I was looking forward to making more progress today....but discovered a new problem instead.

She is kept in a very large paddock (20+ acres with about 8 other horses).

Today, when I went to get her, she began to walk away as soon as she saw me approaching with the halter and lead. Each time she began to step away - I made her go faster by hollering "Get!". She would then trot or canter in a large circle and find something to 'hide' her. She would try to hide from me by standing behind a bush, or sticking her head behind a tree, or trying to stand behind one of the other horses.

On one of her circles - she blundered too close to the back end of one of her pasture mates. After some ear pinning and posturing back and forth, the spoiled mare took a kick to her hind leg hard enough to make her limp a few paces. She then continued her circling.

On her next circle, she cut in close to me, presented her hindquarters and aimed a big kick right in my direction!

She continued circling, and tried to kick me at least twice more....and kept her hindquarters toward me as much as she could. For my part, I kept walking - but began doing short zig-zags to stay out of the kick zone.

(This was MUCH different than our last experience - and much different behavior than before she fought with the other horse.)

Finally, after a little more than an hour - she stopped and submitted to being haltered. I was able to lead her and groom her....but she only let me do her back feet. After 45 minutes of trying, I could not make her lift either front foot. (I would have kept at it - but I had somewhere to be...)

The owners (who are the ones that have spoiled her rotten) tell me that she is not vicious and would never kick or bite...

but obviously, that is not true.

So my question is - do you think the kicking today was a serious disrespect issue?

Or, is it possible that she was reacting to having been kicked by the other horse? She stopped limping - so while I'm sure she had a bruise....I'm not sure how serious any injury might have been. There was no swelling, nor broken skin.

What do you think?
 
See less See more
#2 ·
I seriously think you have missed several opportunites to "paint her back porch red" as my daughter would say. ANY horse that turns its butt to me gets a reminder that that is NOT a good idea, and one that offers to kick in my direction-is left with NO doubt in their mind. Do I think it is disrespect or a reaction? Frankly, I am in the disrespect camp, but, you need to not give the "why" a second thought. She needs to know you are the boss mare, and what the other horse did to her is nothing. Make her think she will die for a brief couple of seconds.
If I were you I would go out into the field whip in hand. If she is good-great, but if not, you are ready. And no waving it at her. Smack her butt! Keep it black and white. This is wrong, period, and be done with it.
 
#3 ·
A horse hasn't been born that will never kick....but to your problem..when she turns her butt to you getting ready to kick, drive her off with your voice, smack her with the lead, etc. before she kicks to let her know that's not acceptable, then continue to work on catching her.
 
#5 ·
I was not in "smacking distance" for any of these instances...

My response was to drive her with my voice (Get!) and to spin the lead rope at her.

My concern is getting into a physical altercation with a disrespectful horse. When a "rear end" is facing me - I'm in a losing situation if I don't move quickly.

What I'm trying to decide is whether or not this is a "correctable" problem...
 
#7 ·
Whip, cane pole, long branch, bucket, clothes...whatever you can get your hands on. This can be fixed, but you have to make it sting now.

Don't go out there without whip from now on, as she will do this again, until she connects. Next she is liable to try and run you over.

The not picking feet up is another way she is showing you you are not in charge here. A sharp rap with side of hoof pick on the fetlock works wonders.
 
#8 ·
What Cherie said.
in general, when you are walking down a horse, you have to be really sensitive to the "balance point". There's a place where the horse makes the decision to move, and where to move. you approach the horse watching very carefully for the horse to be just about to reach that balance point where she will say, "that's it, I'm out of here". Right before that point, when she hasn't yet made the decision, you back away. She will either stop, and might even draw toward you. Give her a minute, then try approaching again but watch for the tipping place, and don't put so much pressure on that she tips to turning away. If she starts to turn away real slow like, you can sometimes draw her back by stepping back toward her hind a bit but if she turns awya hard, then you start walking along with her .

Look for places to draw her around to thinking toward you.

However , if she turns her hind and kicks out , then let all hell break loose.
 
#12 ·
UPDATE:

It's been raining the last few days, so I didn't get out to work with her again until this morning. I put on my work boots instead of my riding boots (figuring the pasture would be muddy) and my thickest, softest socks (figuring I would walk for a good hour to catch her again) and I was going to grab the lunge whip...

But when I arrived at the stable - there she was standing up near the barn. And she let me walk right up and put the halter on without any fuss or bother.
Go figure!

And then I was able to get her to pick up her feet without too much trouble.


So in analyzing these last several sessions...

I'm thinking the kicking was a reaction to being kicked by the other horse. Maybe it really hurt - maybe it made her cranky - who knows?

In retrospect - I think side-stepping and then chasing her off was an appropriate way to handle it. Even if she was hurting - she should not be disrespecting me. However, if she WAS hurting - I don't think more hurting would have been the answer.
 
#13 ·
If it were me I would put the mare in a smaller paddock. One that she can't run clear across a large field and can't go far and you don't get stuck playing the cant catch me game.

And as far as the kicking goes. Smack her butt HARD. That is complete sign of disrespect in my book.

Here is what I would do to solve this issue:

Put the mare in smaller paddock.

Whenever go out to get her take a lunge whip with you so you have distance.

If she kicks, whip her HARD straight on her hindquarters. She most likely will kick again out of reaction, and when she does whip her again. She will very quickly learn that it is not acceptable under any circumstances to kick out at you.

If she still wants to run from you then let her, but make it under your terms. Make her work. She will discover that it isn't so much fun to run because then it will result in hard work. She will give up on running and when she does, halter her, take her into the barn, groom her, and put her back out. Also would suggest going out a few times throughout the day, catch her, put halter on, and then turn her loose again. This will teach her that getting caught doesn't always mean that she is going to work.

You should only have to do this for a day or two before she begins to realize that a) coming in isn't so bad after all, and b) it doesn't feel good to kick and be disrespectful.

One thing you want to be sure of is to NEVER feed or treat a horse to catch them. This will only cause a whole other set of problems and aggressive ones at that. If you treat only do so outside of the pasture.
 
#14 ·
I have been in situations where I had nothing with me that I could throw. At those times, I have jumped, bellowed, and generally carried on like an insane bear. It never took more than twice.

Embarrassing? Yes. And I do have the advantage of no near neighbors. But, I think taking a hoof rather than going absolutely ballistic would be embarrassing, too.

Good luck with this horse. I think this issue can be resolved.
 
#15 ·
Hi,
I have dealt with more horses that don't want to be caught then most. I have seen it dealt with in a few different ways. The problem with running a horse down is that the horse can start to see that as part of the being caught. I had a horse that was run down to be caught and eventually got to the point where catching her was 3 hours of running her down. When cornered she got nasty, rearing, striking etc. What worked with that horse was a combination of rewards (food or attention) and leaving. Do you ever just go out catch her, pet her and let her go?Doing that made a huge difference with this mare (who went for years without being caught). Yes, being groomed and fussed over is a reward from where we stand, but for your horse you are taking them away from their pasture mates and friends. I also found that with the other mare, when she ran off I would just turn to the nearest horse and fuss over them. It was weird but it worked her jealousy vein and made her easier to catch.
The thing is to stay safe and keep an eye on the horse and those around her. If you are going to run her down look into the videos by Dr. Robert Miller. He has a technique for catching a hard to catch horse that does seem to work for most.
 
#19 ·
For the record:

I AGREE that kicking is unacceptable and downright dangerous!

I am a little frustrated that the bulk of responses seem to be "smack her butt" - not because I am against smacking....but because the kick was not close enough to have connected. Her heels were a good 6 to 8 feet away from me. And she was already in motion away from me (IOW - she was trotting a wide circle around me - then turned her butt in and kicked with both feet - and quickly continued on her circle). In order to smack her in the butt or hit her with my six foot lead rope - I would have had to run toward the rear end of a trotting horse and/or hurl a lightweight rope or halter at her backside - which frankly, I don't think I would have been able to connect given my spaghetti arms.

Instead, I side-stepped and hollered and waved my rope.

For her next kicking attempts - I hollered and chased her away before the heels came off the ground.


I *have not* been making every catch about work.

I *have* been making sure that a catch is following by rest, and praise and plenty of scratching and petting.

Yesterday, after the easy catch and easy feet and a short bit of work in the round pen -- she was led into the barn for a treat.


In regards to the kicking issue - after it happened...I went online and tried to Google for some advice. Instead, I found that most advice is geared toward kicking while handling feet or kicking in the round pen. I couldn't find anything about kicking in your general direction (a sign of disrespect) from some distance away. (Although there did seem to be a few articles suggesting that kicking horses are so dangerous the issue should be left only to the most experienced trainers - of which I am not.)

Thanks for the responses...

I will continue to let you know how it goes.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top