My Beef With Cookie Cutter Training - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 22 Old 07-11-2011, 03:27 PM Thread Starter
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lol I like MHFoundations comment "I try to be as soft as I can be but as hard as they need me to be." Thats all systems really boiled down to the root and it is the truth. Parelli is my favorite system to pick on...I told my husband that Pat could pick a switch from the hickory tree outback and sell it for 39.95 as the "latest and greatest all natural training aid to hit the market" PLUS come up with a whole series of DVD's & Books to teach you how to use your new tool...the switch would end up costing you several hundred dollars :) I know that almost every freakin horse problem I see is all about the people the horse has unfortunately encountered...and it is usually the worst pairing ever (ex. the rough & tough cowboy who likes to kick the snot out of his horse who gets the scared & timid horse ready to jump outta its socks...or WORSE...the timid well intentioned little lady who gets the horse that is ready to bite, kick, and dominate any living creature that gets in it's path and every day she picks him a bucket of clover and makes him apple and carrot salads and he bites her in the face when she is trying to give it to him and she says "oh it's ok mommy still loves you" and then brings him some cookies)

And Doe I love your idea...because I can't think of a horse I have known that had an issue that wasn't the direct result of something an idiot taught it. I know horses have their own little "horsonalities" :) (which one is that I think Parelli) BUT they have a foundation to be laid that should be about the same solid ideal no matter how you get to it...I see alot of holes in horses...people assume because you can "mount" a horse and get it to move around it is "broke"...and the truth is it is sooooooooo not true...breaking a horse in could take 3 days or 3 years...I call a horse broke in when all it's little quirks are ironed out and it can behave itself accordingly in all the situations it is going to be asked to endure...

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post #12 of 22 Old 07-12-2011, 10:35 AM
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Scotland
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Whether people are doing endless NH circles with their horse because it keeps running away, or putting big curb bit in its mouth for the same reason, it all boils down to cluelessness, rather than the flaws of any one particular training system. What I see are people who buy a horse knowing very little about them -- they haven't taken riding lessons for years, they haven't leased a horse, they haven't ridden many for other people, they haven't worked at barns -- but finally fulfill their dream of horse ownership. Then they get into trouble because really, to work well with horses, you need to know quite a lot. But people who don't are now saddled (clever pun, eh?) with a 1200lbs animal they can't control and will turn to pretty much anything to fix it. The quicker the better, be it a particular individual who promises his methods can solve anything, to a bigger bit, more straps on its face, anything. That is far easier for people to get their heads around than the fact that it takes many years of work to become a competent horseman, so they'd better get started on their education.

But then, where is the education coming from? You guys who have been around horses for many years say, "It's common sense" but if horses are completely foreign to you, it's not. Even well meaning, nice owners might not have a clue about what appears bleedingly obvious to the experienced eye, because no one told them. Sad. Like the balance thing. I got on a TB the other day, who is spooky, can be difficult to control, especially over jumps, and leans like a freight train. After I'd been on the horse for about three seconds, I said, "Wow. He's completely on his forehand. No balance. I don't think anyone has ever taught him to use his hind end. He's trying to run because he can't get his balance with a rider up there." His owners, who are the nicest people, were like, "Huh?" No one had ever told them that or worked on it with them even though they had been taking lessons for a few years. They just put up with the horse being awkward to ride, thinking, "That's just how he is."

Last edited by thesilverspear; 07-12-2011 at 10:43 AM.
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post #13 of 22 Old 07-12-2011, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Horsesdontlie View Post

I can't believe when people come up to me and ask, "Who do you follow?"

My response is "the horse". I change what I do to suit the horses needs.
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post #14 of 22 Old 07-12-2011, 11:14 AM
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Mls, that's the best answer to that question!

I could list 50 people I've learned things from over the years, but what I've learned from having my hands on and legs over hundreds of different horses has taught me more than any person could - be it in daily life, clinics, books or dvds.
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post #15 of 22 Old 07-12-2011, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by mls View Post
My response is "the horse". I change what I do to suit the horses needs.
Now that is a brilliant response!
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post #16 of 22 Old 07-12-2011, 06:07 PM Thread Starter
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MLS...maybe you should patent that statement and market your own "system" :) you could be a millionaire
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post #17 of 22 Old 07-13-2011, 02:02 PM
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The funniest i like to pick on is Clinton... he's a good trainer but take note:

His videos, he has one for the barrel horse, gaited, spotted, right hooved and anything but arab.

Now look how he solves any problem he goes to his patented clinton anderson aussie halter and rope with patented handy stick and string and works the horse in circles (yes direction changes keeping feet moving ect)

but by golly he's going to sell you a different video when you get to your barrel horse over that gaited one.

and only tie with his patented aussie (blocker) tie ring he claims they wont pull out..... they are handy yes but i had a filly who would pull all the way out and the rest have found a way to get themselves free
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post #18 of 22 Old 07-13-2011, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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Right now maybe it isn't even the "guru's" I have issue with it's there flippin followers. They REALLY get annoying when you know they have like one horse- who is about 20 years old and they get to spend lot's of time with just that one horse-and the thing never gives them any issues because they got lucky and got a good horse...who then turn and preach to people who they don't know- about situations they never in a million years would have the balls to put themselves in...but because on page 22 of so-and-so's training manual it says that you "should" do it such and such a way you do it a little different they say you have no horse sense what-so-ever. Well I haven't ever seen any of them do anything spectacular with a "crazy" horse. You know the kind that would rather run you over than be caught...or the kind that decides to rear up and whack you in the top of the head with it's front hoof because it just does not feel like you being in it's presence today...or the one that comes flying backwards trying to kick the crap out of you because it has NEVER had a human being in it's space. These video's and books just to me are not for people dealing with "real" horses....I think they should do EVERYONE including the horses a big favor and just stop it....I am working at a local equine rescue helping the lady there out and she said she has had SOOOOOOOO many Parelli trained horses come through there because people buy into this BS and when the horse doesn't do what he said it would do...they get frustrated...and send it down the road...she said most of her Parelli trained horses are the worst to try and do anything with... and they aren't bad horses...they have just had poor training laid because it is a little trickier sometimes than getting some DVD's and working a little bit here and there with them...well anyways just still ranting...
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post #19 of 22 Old 07-14-2011, 07:56 AM
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I too read and watch videos of just about every trainer out there and I wish we had RFDTV here because I have watched it a few times and loved it but we dont.
Everything is about taking the good with the bad and especially as you have said "what works for one, does not always work for another".
Once in a while we all have to think outside the box...its a good day when you accomplish something without having to look it up to make sure you are doing it right and wont be frowned upon.
I worship no one, and study everyone.
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post #20 of 22 Old 07-14-2011, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Annnie31 View Post
I worship no one, and study everyone.
That is the best answer.

I am as far away as you can get in liking anything that Parelli does but a good horseman CAN find something that should be stored away for future reference in virtually every decent trainer out there.
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