My exracer doesn't work in any sort of a outline.... will this come in time?
   

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My exracer doesn't work in any sort of a outline.... will this come in time?

This is a discussion on My exracer doesn't work in any sort of a outline.... will this come in time? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Bits for working in an outline with a difficult horse
  • Pulling girl

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  • 2 Post By Endiku
  • 3 Post By Kayty
  • 4 Post By maura
  • 1 Post By Endiku

 
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    05-16-2012, 03:42 PM
  #1
Foal
My exracer doesn't work in any sort of a outline.... will this come in time?

Hi

My tb mare who's a exracer and has never really been reschooled or schooled in a outline.... not even a natural one! She walks/trots/canters with her head up in the air looking at the sky!

I don't expect her to just suddenly start working in a outline, but I wondered if they do come down in to a natural outline in there own time or if she'll need help with lunge aids ect....

When I say outline I mean her working from her back with a soft neck and not stretching her head out to work over her back?

I will stress she doesn't lean on the hand or anything and she does work over her back..... :) im not overly worried about getting a prefect outline, she's a project so she could end up hacking (and will most likely end up hacking)

Any advice!
     
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    05-16-2012, 03:54 PM
  #2
Teen Forum Moderator
Neither. She most likely will not start to carry herself in a rounded manner by herself, and lunging aids is going to nothing but force her into that position when you're using it, and teach her to brace against pressure when she's not.

To get a round outline you first have to start with their butt. This generally has to be taught by the rider by asking them to 'gather themselves up' underneath and work with their rear end tucked and moving like a powerhouse, not dragging behind them. The back will then begin to round and not feel so hollow- creating smoother gaits. Once those are both in place, the headset will naturally fall into place- but once again its the riders job to teach the horse to accept and look for contact in the bit to be 'on the verticle.'

Its not something that can easily be explained over the internet, and it definitely can't be taught on here. I'd advise in looking for a trainer to teach her how to correctly use herself. It will make rides much more enjoyable!
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    05-16-2012, 04:10 PM
  #3
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Endiku    
Neither. She most likely will not start to carry herself in a rounded manner by herself, and lunging aids is going to nothing but force her into that position when you're using it, and teach her to brace against pressure when she's not.

To get a round outline you first have to start with their butt. This generally has to be taught by the rider by asking them to 'gather themselves up' underneath and work with their rear end tucked and moving like a powerhouse, not dragging behind them. The back will then begin to round and not feel so hollow- creating smoother gaits. Once those are both in place, the headset will naturally fall into place- but once again its the riders job to teach the horse to accept and look for contact in the bit to be 'on the verticle.'

Its not something that can easily be explained over the internet, and it definitely can't be taught on here. I'd advise in looking for a trainer to teach her how to correctly use herself. It will make rides much more enjoyable!
She works from behind uses her bum and her back to carry herself, but her head just has never come down, she doesn't ride hollow she rides like a powerhouse and has very natural powerfilled gaits.... she can collect herself and carry her self when she has a balanced rider (she can be a handful with a rider that can't balance themselfs)

She's just never dropped her head, i've had her 9 months and she's been off 6 months due to winter and she also had a few other problems... she's also been a nightmare to mount so we've had to restart her

She doesn't lunge or ride any sort of head/neck outline but she'll run in her field or lose with a natural neck/head outline....

So i'm wondering if she'll soften up in the neck over time and not have her head like she's keeping a eye out for aliens... aha :)
     
    05-16-2012, 06:56 PM
  #4
Teen Forum Moderator
Its not really possible for a horse to move in a perfect body outline without lowering their head atleast some. Its like trying to run with your head thrown back. If you're running all strung out like a little kid then you can easily run with your head tilted out. But if you really focus on reaching out with your legs and moving forewards, you're going to adapt to a smoother, rounder form and your head isn't going to be flailing up at the sky.

Its the same for a horse. Theres no way that she can be completely utelizing her butt, back, and shoulders and keeping her head up in the sky.

Ofcourse, she may just have a naturally high set neck. Some OTTBs do. But she should atleast have it down enough to be 'reaching' into her bridle for contact. Do you happen to have any videos of her being ridden?


This is the OTTB that I trained- Noah. I'm going to use him as an example for a minute.

Is this a bit like what your girl looks like? Moving forewards well and listening, but with the head up- not pulling or anything, but definitely higher than it should be?



I'm going to let you answer this before I continue, so I can kind of understand.
     
    05-16-2012, 10:39 PM
  #5
Trained
Let me assure you, that if she's hollowing her neck and sticking her head in the air, she is not using her back. TB's are notorious for being leg movers, not back movers. Just because she is tracking up does not mean that she is engaged or 'collected'.

She needs to develop relaxation and suppleness in her work. This can be achieved by riding lots of curving figures and leg yield. Spiralling in and out on a circle using leg yield is an extremely useful exercise for this purpose. Avoid straight lines, they are difficult to keep a horse 'together' on, so for now, curved lines and leg yielding only.
     
    05-17-2012, 07:01 AM
  #6
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Endiku    
Is this a bit like what your girl looks like? Moving forewards well and listening, but with the head up- not pulling or anything, but definitely higher than it should be?



I'm going to let you answer this before I continue, so I can kind of understand.

I have a few pictures of her being ridden by my friend (there not brilliant pictures but you'll get the idea) - she's getting back into work and these pictures are from the first and second time being ridden in 6 months so there mainly 'lazy' pictures, but they give you an idea of where she hold her self :)

Her standing up





Walking/turning



Her usual looking at the sky moment :)



A relaxed walk -- or lets follow mummy!




As you can see she softens her neck when relaxed in walk but as soon as you walk on her head goes to the stars... this is why I was wondering if she'll start relaxing down once in full work or if she'll always been like this... :)
     
    05-17-2012, 07:26 AM
  #7
Banned
She looks pretty typical for an ex racehorse to me.

Here's the difference between ex-racers and your average green horse or green reclaim -

On the average greenie if you just keep using hills and lots of transitions with correct flat work, the challenges to their balance will lead them to rebalance correctly using their backs and working in an outline.

Racehorses have been taught to balance by bracing on the reins, and traveling in a hollow or inverted frame. Most of the stuff that works on a regular greenie does not work with them because they ARE balanced and can handle anything you throw at them, still in their hollow and inverted frame and still braced on the reins.

Many people get frustrated with this and use some sort of head setting device like a chambon, german martingale or draw reins and end up substituting one bad habit for another; and teach the horse to go hollow and braced but with its head in a different position. Not really an improvement, and of course, the horse's gaits don't change, just the head position.

The real solution is lots and lots of correct dressage type flat work, really working on inside leg to solidly on the outside rein and gradually teaching the horse to give correctly to the bit. It also involves a lot of work and sensitivity to the horse's back - warming up correctly, stretching and allowing every opportunity for the horse to move through its back, and rewarding appropriately when it happens.

It is not a quick fix, and not something that should be attempted with out a very good set of eyes on the ground and some instruction..

And it's very helpful to understand how horses are ridden/trained at the track before embarking on the project. (Same thing with mounting issues - makes a lot more sense when you know how they're handled at the track.)

Good luck with her, she's very cute.
     
    05-17-2012, 09:04 AM
  #8
Green Broke
You are getting some good and accurate advice. What they are telling you is correct and your pictures confirm that.
     
    05-17-2012, 09:24 AM
  #9
Teen Forum Moderator
Another thing that really helped me with getting our OTTB moving well was lateral flexation exercises. The serpentines, spirals, circles, and pole/cone work also helped him learn how to 'bring it all in' sort of speak and really work off of his butt. The picture that I gave you was of Noah about a month into his retraining- and he was about where your girl is right now. Moving well but just not using himself as much as he could.

You do have to remember though, that a racehorse is going to have different muscles developed than your average horse. Noah came right off the track with a few months of down time, so that was really important to remember with him.

With your mare, while she definitely isnt racing fit anymore- she's still going to be using those stronger muscles to propel her forwards, and that's where the retraining comes in. You have to teach her to use and build up those other muscles that she most likely doesnt even realize that she has.

With that said, I'd advise in trying to get her to stretch out into the bit and really relax all of her muscles during warm ups. You want her to be searching for contact with your hands and moving forewards well.



That's the kind of work that I actually did with Noah for the first few weeks, just to get him used to the contact and to using different muscles. And then I started introducing small amounts of work in-frame, gradually working him up to look like this.


'

In that picture, he's using himself correctly (albeit, a little stiff at the poll) versus the stringy, hollow way that he was moving before. That's what you want with your mare.
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