I really need some help with my mare she has a big bolting and napping issue. Last year I had a bad fall on her which has made the whole situation worse. When she bolts she will even spin on the spot and bolt or she will go into a really fast trot which you cannot stop and then go into a gallop. Last week she bolted while hacking she decided that she would not go forward and froze after 15 minutes of arguing with her trying to make her walk, she walked on. The bolt happened on the way home she went into a fast trot and then a gallop which I could not stop at all no idea whY she bolted at all. Last week she bolted just as we went to leave the yard she span on the spot and galloped up the drive way after this bolt I made her walk on but when on the road she froze and then when going back she bolted up the driveway again. Last month she bolted when she heard another horse she went into a full gallop up the road. This bolting issue is now becoming dangerous as she is doing it in front of cars and they have been many times cars have had to stop for her because of her bolting. I have tried many different things to stop her. (Stronger bit, loads of techniques, and she has been checked by the saddle man the dentist back person and the vet) She is in no pain. She is weird in the way that sometime she can be great to ride mainly when up the woods but them over days she is a pain. It seems we can not go a week without one bolt. What should I do how can I sort this issue out. Or shall I give and just take her to the woods before she hurts her self or someone else. I have been told by many including my riding teacher that she is going to kill me and other have told me it is because I am an awful rider. I am a happy hacker and I love exploring on hacks but she hates it as soon as you ask her to go somewhere new or even just turn around early she kicks up s fuss and will just freeze or walk backwards or just spin and bolt. Has anyone got any ideas at all?
Sian was 14 when I first got her and I was 14 when I first got her. I brought her as a safe hack and she was but I did not know that she had a bad leg making her plod around. She has always had a bit bolting about her even though she had a bad leg one of the first times I rode her she bolted down a really fast road with me. I am maybe to nice I agree with that but I do shout at her I will go mad at her if she is really naughty. I think I can sort her out I have been riding for 13 years so you would think after that long I would at least be able to stop her bolting. It is just that I see other people at the stables going out on hacks exploring and having fun and I cannot even go down the road on sian. I don't think she is dangerous but were she bolts is dangerous and some people I know keep telling me she is going to kill me and others keep saying you have ruined her. I will try to fix her just to prove them wrong but I have been having these issues for nearly 4 years now and nothing I do seems to work. I would love to go out and buy a nice hacking horse which I could go out on but as much as it would be great I kind of feel like that would not be fair on sian I have kind of made her worse so I should sort her out not just get a new horse. Fingers crossed a year from now I might be saying how well she is doing hopefully
Maybe shouting at her isn't necessarily what I mean by being assertive. For me, the "assertiveness" comes from the way you handle her. If she tries to turn to the right, you MAKE her go to the left by holding that left rein and making it so she really has some resistance and just CAN'T go the way she wants. Pop her butt if you have to to let her know you mean business. Now trust me, I KNOW this might mean you'll get a buck or my mare used to kick, but she learned that I wasn't going to tolerate letting her go where she wanted to go and she absolutely was going where I wanted because I was an assertive rider. If her bucking scares you and you know she will respond that way if you get too aggressive, then you'll have to decide if she is too unsafe for your riding style. If you want to keep riding her in the safe places, do that just for the fun of it, but know you won't be teaching her to behave-you're still giving her what she wants by compromising what it is you REALLY want.
Please do not put yourself down! You have not ruined her because everything is solvable.
I understand that it is frightening when you are not in control. (In over 50 years of riding I cannot tell you the number of times I have been hooked off with though, in all that time I have only ever been bolted with once.
Forget the falling over some rocks, she will have done and the 'fear' of walking down the drive is probably just napping in a more minor way.
Unless you are terrified of riding her in the field try taking her out there and just letting her run. She will want to stop and then you take over making her keep going for several laps more. Then you give her a breather and just before she gets her breath back you make her go again.
Anyone who has ridden for any amount of time will admit to making mistakes with horses. Fortunately they survive and forgive. We just learn from those mistakes.
Cleo, don't beat yourself up. My last horse-but-two came to me as a herd-bound cow-baggage with a strong personality and the ability to Nap for England. She was lovely in the school, or hacking out in company, and on the ground but she was a b****h when I tried to hack out alone. I was in over my head and so I called in help.
I found a guy that specialised in re-backing problem horses - the ones that other people wrote off as 'mad, bad, and dangerous'. She was not mad or bad, nor did she need re-backing, but I needed someone with his level of skills to deal with this for me.
So he rode her out, he hunted her, he taught her to accept certain situations AND most importantly he taught me how to deal with it.
The more experienced people who have sat on your horse and said she is like 'a bomb about to go off' may be more experienced than you but the very fact that they said that is proof that they are not experienced ENOUGH.
Explain that you have a mare who is napping very badly, and that you don't have the skills to deal with it. Ask if they can recommend anyone you could hire to help you. BE AWARE that all these people are naturally suspicious of anyone who they do not know calling them up; they may be guarded when talking to you. Don't take this to heart, it is a reflection of the actions of the sabatoers, not on you.
2 - go around all your local tack shops with the same query. Ask for recommendations.
Do not fear - there is SOMEONE out there that can help you. You just need to find them.
A horse tried this with me. He was in a snaffle so with both hands on the left rein I strong-armed his head until his chin was on top of my knee and he was looking at me. I made it real uncomfortable for him. After doing this a few times he realised it's easier on him to respond to the reins
Watched some of videos, and one thing noticed is when you can see her ears? She is constantly checking to see if can get by with something.
That one ear flicking back, while still being alert with the other? She's thinking about doing something and is seeing if you are paying attention or not.
Will say that if you are a babier in any way? Any horse you get will more than likely develop this problem too. Sweet talking and jabbering away to a horse makes them worse.
I don't sweet talk at all. when riding I will say good girl and give her a pat but I will also say no and make her walk on. It is obvious that we don't work at all together so I will try my best to get her sorted and I cannot not then I will just stop doing the hacking and just stick to the field or the woods and start having riding lessons instead of getting a new horse as I don't want to make a new horse have the same issues as sian has got
well, you're doing something I'm hearing in the videos....sounds like sweet talking, but okay. When she stopped (ON HER OWN ACCORD), and you actually let her take some grass, I called the issue. My horse stops to snatch grass, she is getting snatched herself and made to work. She hasn't snatched grass in a few weeks now, unless we are walking through a field with grass to her nose. That still irks me.
You want to get her sorted, you're going to have to "be mean." No more asking her nicely to do something. No more relaxing. This is business. This is your life--and your horse's. She walks out, and as soon as she thinks to stop (and you can feel it, if you have any horse sense about you), you drive her on. Don't nag or move your legs around constantly. Don't twitch your reins constantly. Let her make her mistake and then correct her firmly. If you are hesitant with your riding, which I suspect you are, she will take advantage. You tell her what to do with clear, direct cues, and if she takes a step out of line, you demand the proper action.
riding lessons are a great idea. But don't take lessons from the 16 year old down the road. Take lessons from an actual riding instructor that sometimes yells and picks apart your leg position and hands.
YOU need to decide you're tired of this nonsense, and you need to convey that to the horse.
When next you try hacking, pick a spot way up ahead, and focus on that. Don't look down at the road or her ears. This will keep your chin up and your whole body will tell the horse this is where you are going. As you approach that spot pick another. There's an old cowboy saying, if you look at the ground you are picking a spot to come off. Don't even think of where or when she might misbehave, just stay focused on that spot way up the road. Don't pet her or talk to her. Do you carry a riding crop? Sometimes just moving it will provide enough incentive to keep going. If you think she is going to try to hurry home, if you can do so safely then dismount and make her walk farther away first then walk home. Any time she tries to quicken her pace, quickly reverse and start walking the other way. Don't worry about it if this results in a hard yank on her head. The more you do this the more she'll start paying attention to you and not home. BTW, NO treats or feed when you get back. Tie her up if she ties well and let her wait an hour but do keep an eye on her. Again, no talking or petting. You are making home not quite as nice as she wants or perhaps you've created.
Good idea I will try it tonight I don't carry a crop but I have one which I can take with me. The only issue is I cannot get off her and lead her I have done that before and she has nearly pulled me over as she will try to rush home and just drag me. If she has been bad when I get back I just put her out if she has been good then I would give her a net a brush down then put her out
Good idea I will try it tonight I don't carry a crop but I have one which I can take with me. The only issue is I cannot get off her and lead her I have done that before and she has nearly pulled me over as she will try to rush home and just drag me.
It sounds as if it would be good to do some work on leading her with the bridle. Is there somewhere close to home that she doesn't want to go? You should practise leading her, taking unusual routes where she's not used to going, to put her to the test. And if she tries to take off, you must give a sharp tug on the reins, let her run tiny circles round you if she must, and pull her in to you until she stops. It's crucial for you to have control of her on the ground so that if things get hairy when you're hacking, you can always get off and walk her home. When I say do this close to home, I mean really close, so that it's safe even if she DOES take off and you have to let go. But if that happens, catch her up and take her out again so that you always end the session on a winning note for you.
I think this mare has got used to making the decisions about where you go when you're out. If she has been doing this for four years, it will be hard to turn the situation on its head. You need to pick your battles carefully, and put her in situations where you know you can win, and then make your demands and make sure she falls into line. To start off with, these battles might be nothing bigger than deciding to turn left or right in the fields, small things that will help to establish that you are the boss. It sounds to me as if your mare is very set in her ways, so ask her to do nexpected things in a small way. Halt her in places where there's no reason to stop, make her disengage her hindquarters, then continue. Small exercises like this will set you up for success when you want her to turn left at the junction where you always go right.
Avoid routine on the trails if possible. When I am hacking I often don't have a fixed route plan, but when I get to a junction I can feel which way my horse wants to go. Smetimes I go with her, other times I tell her we're going the other way. It's ok to let them decide sometimes AS LONG as you know they will obey you without a fuss if you decide differently.
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If she has been bad when I get back I just put her out if she has been good then I would give her a net a brush down then put her out[/QUOTE]
Do what Saddlebag said and tie her up for at least half an hour when you get back. There is nothing disagreeable for her about being put straight back out, even without the hay net. Making her arrival back home a bit less pleasant could have an enormous payback. I am working on a herdbound pony at present, and I always leave her tied after riding.
Sorry about this essay. I just hate to think of you and your horse having a hard time together instead of being able to enjoy each other. I am sure your horse can improve, but you must learn to be firm and absolutely consistent with her. Never go aling with her decisions unless youcan prove it was your idea first! Posted via Mobile Device
Something else I remembered I used to do with a couple of mine that wanted to rush home. When we got home, they WORKED, then stood tied for a while. I would push them harder around the barn than they had worked the entire 8 hours of the trail ride! That did help a LOT. Both horses learned that there wasn't anything they wanted to rush home to.
Cleo, do NOT think you "ruined" this mare! That just isn't true at all! If anything you have been brave to keep after it despite the scary and incredibly frustrating situation. You are also wise enough that you know things haven't been good and are actively seeking advice.
Everyone here has given good advice, and don't forget that you DO have options here. You can try the techniques suggested here, get another trainer to look at her for another opinion and advice, etc. And if you really and truly are getting frustrated with Sian and the situation just doesn't improve, don't be afraid to consider a new horse! Situations like this happen all the time in the horse world!
Good luck and let us know how things go! Posted via Mobile Device
Thank you for the comments they are very useful x Something else which needs sorting is this sometime we will be walking out and it is fine. If I have to turn her around to go home early then she will refuse to go back home she will only keep going. Do I just do the same as if she turns push her on and not let her turn at all? I will consider lessons as well but I will need to move yards in order to have the lessons as I currently have no ménage.
She sounds like a very set in HER way type of horse! LOL Yes, make her do what YOU want her to do. If you want to go home and she tries to turn, don't let her, push her on toward the house.
I was going to remark about the ears as well. Her whole attitude says she is not focused on you but forward except to check on you and the level of resistance she is likely to get. I got this with no sound just motion. I agree this isn't a mare spinning or madly bolting for home ( or whatever direction). She is in full control going at a comfortable speed for her. As you aren't in control it makes it a dangerous situation for you. IF I am reading responses correctly then your voice does not command respect. Even if it did if there was no follow up or expectation on the horse's part that there would be a CTJ if there was no positive response following a correction (voice command) then she knows she is the boss.
I think I will try the walking out to different places. today I took her up the woods and I took her a different way I did not talk to her as much and when we went to go down she tried to turn me around which I stopped after a bit of an argument she went down as soon as we cam onto the path she went into a trot which I could not stop so I pulled her back but she just raised her head up so I could not stop her but I did get her to stop in the end. I am pleased that she did that on her own. Not sure I want to try her back on the road just yet as it is busy and lots of traffic. But I do feel mean a little bit telling her off I know it will do her good to know she is not the boss but I hate feeling I get after telling her off
It is far, far better and indeed kinder to tell the horse off in a big, emphatic way that makes plain what they should or should not be doing than it is to be constantly nagging at it. For example, if I had a horse take off in trot and refuse to stop, it would be spinning in so many tiny little circles it would be dizzy. The other option, as someone above said, is to push it on when it takes off and not let it stop even when it wants to. You need a safe space and a velcro butt for that method, though. They soon learn it is easier to just do what you want. But that's why you and the horse need the schooling. For corrections to work, you and the horse have to be working off the aids in the first place. If a horse knows to follow rein and leg pressure, I can spin it around easily.
It is far, far better and indeed kinder to tell the horse off in a big, emphatic way that makes plain what they should or should not be doing than it is to be constantly nagging at it. For example, if I had a horse take off in trot and refuse to stop, it would be spinning in so many tiny little circles it would be dizzy. The other option, as someone above said, is to push it on when it takes off and not let it stop even when it wants to. You need a safe space and a velcro butt for that method, though. They soon learn it is easier to just do what you want. But that's why you and the horse need the schooling. For corrections to work, you and the horse have to be working off the aids in the first place. If a horse knows to follow rein and leg pressure, I can spin it around easily.
This!! This puts the ball back in YOUR court. When you do this, suddenly it's not so much fun any more for the horse because it's not THEIR idea to go faster and for longer.
This mare has a HUGE radar, as evidenced by the ears and gawking around at everything, and total lack of focus. Kudos to you for sticking with her for so long!
A couple things come to mind after watching the first two videos.
1. You're riding on a path that has solid bushes on either side, with occasional breaks in the shrubbery. Most horses will freak out a little at the breaks in the shrubs. it's a great place for cougars to hide and jump out of. When she freaks out at a particular spot, you should turn her around and make her walk past it back and forth until she stops freaking. Letting her rush by it is permission to misbehave. Someone already mentioned it, but letting her stop to eat is a bad habit. Again, puts her in charge, not you.
2. Just before your horse starts to freak out, you start looking all over the place. You seem nervous BEFORE your horse seems nervous. It's like you're cueing her into the fact that there's something out there that worries you. I think you're helping to trigger her bolts with your own worries that she's going to bolt soon.
3. Your reaction when she speeds up is to start making noises like a crazed chipmunk (ha ha). That doesn't sound soothing to me; it sounds like a person who's scared, which is only going to make the horse scared too. Next time try something lower in tone, the same sound you make to stop a horse ("whooah" or whatever word you use.)
I only watched the first two videos, but I'm guess it's the same issues in the others. I could be wrong!
Best of luck. She seems really cute from that top view you have.
Well I have a massive update on this bolting/napping issues. Her old owner got in contact with me this person broke sian in and has had her up to she was around 12. She said that she has been used in a trekking centre and ever since being backed she has been behind a large group of horses and they always went down the same lane everyday being lead . So Sian has never ever been hacked out alone and has never been hacked anywhere apart from that one lane so these issues are all due to her confidence. The lady did say she took her out once on her own and she said can see why she would be unsafe to hack out alone. She should of never been sold to me as a 100% confidence giver. I have also decided that she is going to be retired as a semi-retired hack and I am going to get a new horse, as when sian bolts it is getting to the point were I am getting off and I ending up trembling and in tears as she is really scaring me.
Well I have a massive update on this bolting/napping issues. Her old owner got in contact with me this person broke sian in and has had her up to she was around 12. She said that she has been used in a trekking centre and ever since being backed she has been behind a large group of horses and they always went down the same lane everyday being lead . So Sian has never ever been hacked out alone and has never been hacked anywhere apart from that one lane so these issues are all due to her confidence. The lady did say she took her out once on her own and she said can see why she would be unsafe to hack out alone. She should of never been sold to me as a 100% confidence giver. I have also decided that she is going to be retired as a semi-retired hack and I am going to get a new horse, as when sian bolts it is getting to the point were I am getting off and I ending up trembling and in tears as she is really scaring me.
I am sorry that you are going through this. I noticed immediately she spins and bolts when she is approaching a clearing. She is 19 years old - has her vision been checked?
I'm a beginner myself so I'm not offering advice here. I'm just wondering why nobody has suggested having a full-scale Come To Jesus meeting with this horse? I realize the OP is maybe a quieter, more timid person and might not naturally have a "Come To Jesus" type of personality. I'm quiet and timid myself and being taught how to do this literally brought me to tears. It involves aggressive body language, and even faking looking aggressive makes me want to cry, but I tell you what - a badly misbehaving horse changed her whole tune for me when my friend taught me how to do it.
After I'd let her get away with some things for several days in a row, she just kept escalating and then one day she went bucking bronc crazy on me. She threw me so I got right back on like you're supposed to but I was shaking like a leaf and didn't want to stay on her. I got off and literally had to force myself to get mad, or act mad, rather than leaving the barn crying. I got the lunge whip and lunged that horse hard - yelling at her and using aggressive body language and making her do lots and lots of turns, back and forth and round and round, until she was sweaty and breathing heavy. I acted MEAN about it - never hit her but if she'd slow down at all I was right after her making her go faster. Finally my friend came out to the barn and asked what was going on, and after I told her she had a CTJ meeting with the horse as well. It might sound cruel but it only had to be done once and that horse never did give me any sass again after that. In fact - it seemed like she loved me more for it. I love that horse to pieces and wish my friend would sell her to me - she was a lot of fun when she was obeying, and she sure was a brat before that, but it was my fault for letting her get away with stuff for so long.
because is a horse is bolting out of panic, when do you have this Come to Jesus meeting? after you've brought it to a stop? then you beat it?
I had a horse bolt on me once, and after I got it to a stop and realized I was not going to die this time, out of rage I whacked it over the head , between the ears, with my riding crop. I don't think that was helpful. it was jsut me letting out the fear as anger.
I don't know if beating a horse that is in a panic helps. but, I will see what some of the more experienced riders and trainer say.
Yeah - I guess going after her once she stopped would be counter productive, wouldn't it. And doing it while she was still on her back would be hard to do..... unless she just forced her to keep running and refused to let her stop. I would be afraid to do that, myself, but I think that's what I'd do if I was a better rider. It would be different if the horse was actually panicking but it sounds like the bolting has become a habit.
I don't think beating is the answer in any way. There doesn't have to be any physical contact involved. And like I said -I'm a beginner. Just wondering how I might handle it myself if it ever happens to me - deliberate bolting. Hopefully I've learned my lesson about letting a horse walk all over me and it will never happen.
Most of the horse people I know start lunging/round penning horses really frequently when they start misbehaving and it seems to work for them. Not aggressive lunging like you would do immediately after being thrown, but just showing the horse who's boss by making it move it's feet and obey.
I am in no way in a million years going to act aggressively to her or beat her up why would I want to do that. It might sometimes be a habit but most of the times she only reacts when she sees certain scary things and talking to the old owner more its not a surprise she is acting how she is. She has gone from being lead down one lane with loads of horses to me who has hacked her out on a road with no other horses and she is not being lead she is just out of her comfort zone
So hard to tell from a few clips and not being there to actually 'feel' the horse.
But I just see a horse that is not paying attention to you. I don't get the feeling that she is actually bolting.
She looks like she is just off in lala land then she gets bored and decides to spice things up.
One rein stop IMO is a necessity. Works like a charm. I did have a horse once that thought he would lock up his neck and not bend like he was supposed to. My foot came up and clobbered him on the opposite side of where he was supposed to turn. Last time he tried that.
Cheri had some great info on here about keeping the horses attention on the rider and other helpful ideas.
For a starter, this horse is not bolting. Bolting is when a horse runs off at a gallop and is totally blind as to where it is running.
In all the years I have been riding I have only ever been bolted with once. Run away with numerous times but not bolted with.
This horse is just taking advantage of a novice rider who has, understandably, become frightened by her actions and is now apprehensive which will effect the horse more.
I would ride her more forward going out. When she went to spin around, she would see my dressage whip pointing forward, my left rein would be short and I would haul her hard back to the left. As soon as she was pointing in the right direction I would drive her forward with my legs and whip behind my leg.
She might well put in a buck or two just to see if she could frighten me but when that too was punished she would soon give in.
The fact she is use to just following another horse does not mean she cannot be taught to go on her own. She is not a bad horse, just one that has got into a bad habit which no one is prepared to break.
When do you say enough is enough every time I take her out now she is running off she is going to hurt herself I cannot have her running in traffic. I know she is not bad horse and after what her old owners have said she has also napped and ran off since day one even when she a lot younger. When she gets scared she does just run blind so goes into a gallop and I cannot stop her at all she just runs and will not stop for people she will just run in to them and cars she just runs into them
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