My training challenge. Suggestions please :-D
   

       The Horse Forum > Training Horses > Horse Training

My training challenge. Suggestions please :-D

This is a discussion on My training challenge. Suggestions please :-D within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
  • Horse forum move horse home
  • When challenges get hard, would you get upset and walk away?

Like Tree12Likes
  • 1 Post By JLane1
  • 4 Post By Cherie
  • 2 Post By loosie
  • 1 Post By Peppy Barrel Racing
  • 2 Post By Saddlebag
  • 2 Post By loosie

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
    10-03-2012, 08:24 PM
  #1
Started
My training challenge. Suggestions please :-D

So I finally have the time to ride my Palomino mare. She is ten years old and I've owned her since she was a weanling. When I got busy with college she got put out to pasture basically since I only had time to put into my barrel horse. So she hasn't been ridden in two years. She at one time was broke but she has always been a fussy mare who was easy to anger. So I've decided now that I'm done with college I wanted to get her started up again and give her a serious job. So we started the day with longing before our ride then trying to ride her she started to crow hop I urged her forward with the crop on her rear to get her mind off of doing that. Well I wouldn't allow her to put her head down and buck and she started to get upset with me, this is where the rearing up began. I turned her a few times in a circle just trying to shift her focus and get her going in a forward motion. Well I got her to take a few steps then she tried to buck again then reared again. She also tried to kick my legs and bite me, I did not allow that to happen. The rearing really concerns me as I don't want her to fall on me of course. Well I got her to walk again away from the pasture but she is getting pretty upset tossing her head, pinning her ears and trying to get her away. So I hopped off and longed her for a bit till she was a bit more tired and showed me submission. I got back on and no more bucking or rearing and she started to walk down the trail like I wanted her to, occasionally trying to stop and not go but I got her to. Anyways I need some suggestions how do I get her to quit rearing I don't want to get squished. Also when I discipline her she doesn't stop her bad behavior she get's angrier and angrier till she about explodes. I don't know if we are having a disconnect in communication or what. With my other horses a No and or tug on the rope halter or maybe a whip correction ends the problem but not with her. I noticed the lunging cooled her down and diffused the situation. I'm willing to try new things here I want her to do what I want without a meltdown. I think part of the problem is she doesn't want to leave my gelding which I can move him away. Also perhaps we need to reintroduce more respect work and obviously I need to ride her everyday possible consistently. But there has to be a way to stop this hateful behavior, it like she goes from 0 to angry like that I don't get it. I've been training horses for 10 years I've never had this problem.
     
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
    10-03-2012, 08:40 PM
  #2
Foal
Id say ground work. Rearing usually means they don't wanna go forward, and you want her to move forward regardless of what she wants to do. Id get a dressage whip, focus on her hip and click, and if she doesnt move start tapping her hind end till she moves. As soon as she moves stop tapping and praise her. Once she get a good forward cue, Id just do a little work with her moving off of pressure as refresher and get back on. Id lunge her good though when you go to get back on. Get her a little tired and get on and just do light work, maybe some figure 8s. Do the same thing the next day and increse the work, and repeat till you think she's good to hop on. To punish her id make her work. If she acts up id make it clear that it was much easier to do the right thing. You might also tie her up short and let her work things out with herself and then move on with the lesson once she cools down if she gets too violent or angry. I would only do this if she likes moving, if she's lazy, this would be a reward.
     
    10-03-2012, 08:50 PM
  #3
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLane1    
Id say ground work. Rearing usually means they don't wanna go forward, and you want her to move forward regardless of what she wants to do. Id get a dressage whip, focus on her hip and click, and if she doesnt move start tapping her hind end till she moves. As soon as she moves stop tapping and praise her. Once she get a good forward cue, Id just do a little work with her moving off of pressure as refresher and get back on. Id lunge her good though when you go to get back on. Get her a little tired and get on and just do light work, maybe some figure 8s. Do the same thing the next day and increse the work, and repeat till you think she's good to hop on. To punish her id make her work. If she acts up id make it clear that it was much easier to do the right thing. You might also tie her up short and let her work things out with herself and then move on with the lesson once she cools down if she gets too violent or angry. I would only do this if she likes moving, if she's lazy, this would be a reward.
Ok thanks I'll try that with her I was pretty amazed she get's pretty vicious, she is usually a very gentle horse. Yeah when we got forward motion finally, I praised her every time after we got going decently then when we were walking consistantly I just walked her around for about 10 minutes then got off. Definitely need a new form of discipline typical routes aren't working lol. I figured out today definitely need increased ground work. Hopefully tomorrow will go better.
     
    10-03-2012, 09:22 PM
  #4
Super Moderator
She was way to fresh and had gone way to long since she was no better broke than she was to start with. Any problems she had earlier were only going to be 10X worse after the long lay-off.

I would start by tying her out well away from any other horses and leave her tied until she was no longer reactive. A reactive horse is only going to fight and show resistance, so I think it is paramount that you get her attention first. I have found that the very best way to get that done is to tie a horse out until they are happy being away from their buddies and their home.

Then, I would do meaningful ground work. This means longeing with direction changes every circle or part of a circle, making a horse move its shoulder (not hip) over briskly, and backing up.

Then I would ground drive this horse until she went anywhere I pointed her head and was happy to do it. I used to drive over big logs, across creeks, up and down the back-side of pond dams, anywhere I thought I would get resistance. If you spend a week doing this type of meaningful ground-work, I think you will be getting on a different kind of horse with a different attitude.

Oh, and by the way, put your first ride in on her AFTER you do a couple hours of ground-driving, not at the beginning of a work session.
     
    10-03-2012, 09:33 PM
  #5
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherie    
She was way to fresh and had gone way to long since she was no better broke than she was to start with. Any problems she had earlier were only going to be 10X worse after the long lay-off.

I would start by tying her out well away from any other horses and leave her tied until she was no longer reactive. A reactive horse is only going to fight and show resistance, so I think it is paramount that you get her attention first. I have found that the very best way to get that done is to tie a horse out until they are happy being away from their buddies and their home.

Then, I would do meaningful ground work. This means longeing with direction changes every circle or part of a circle, making a horse move its shoulder (not hip) over briskly, and backing up.

Then I would ground drive this horse until she went anywhere I pointed her head and was happy to do it. I used to drive over big logs, across creeks, up and down the back-side of pond dams, anywhere I thought I would get resistance. If you spend a week doing this type of meaningful ground-work, I think you will be getting on a different kind of horse with a different attitude.

Oh, and by the way, put your first ride in on her AFTER you do a couple hours of ground-driving, not at the beginning of a work session.
Thank you Cherie I think that is a great idea. I don't disagree with anything you said. I'll scout out a good place to tie her at how far away do you like to tie horses away from the pasture? I have driving reins I'll get started tomorrow. I was thinking about doing that today as since riding was a disaster. I'm just going to pretend that she is a young horse who has never had a soul on her back and go back to the beginnings of training.
     
    10-03-2012, 10:21 PM
  #6
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peppy Barrel Racing    
So she hasn't been ridden in two years. She at one time was broke but she has always been a fussy mare who was easy to anger.
Sounds like she's had very little handling or good training, so she could do with being started from scratch. What exactly does 'fussy' & 'easy to anger' mean? I'd suspect 'anger' is probably not actually the problem.

Quote:
then trying to ride her she started to crow hop I urged her forward with the crop on her rear to get her mind off of doing that. Well I wouldn't allow her to put her head down and buck and she started to get upset with me, this is where the rearing up began.
Sounds like she started to get upset when you first got on her. Without more info, don't know what started the crow hopping, but I'd first & foremost rule out any possible physical issues, such as sore back, too tight girth, saddle fit, etc. Then I'd want to make sure she was mentally ready to be ridden & not worried about it - eg. Bucking/crop hopping is frequently due to fear of what's on their back, so smacking her on the rear with a crop is only likely to make matters worse. I would instead pay attention to her feelings & get her comfortable with being saddled first, before being mounted, before actually sitting on her for any time, make sure she was comfortable being sat on for short periods before asking her to move off under you, etc.

Quote:
Well I got her to walk again away from the pasture but she is getting pretty upset tossing her head, pinning her ears
I'd start out working her in an environment she's comfortable in, develop your relationship with her a bit before asking her to go off with you.

Quote:
So I hopped off and longed her for a bit till she was a bit more tired and showed me submission.
I'm not a fan of that sort of lunging, but if you're going to do that, also keep in mind that lunging is hard on joints and the horse has only been a paddock bum, so I'd want to get her fitter at least before you do any heavy duty lunging.

Quote:
I got back on and no more bucking or rearing and she started to walk down the trail like I wanted her to
While I would have got to that point in a different manner, great that you got that! That's what you want to reinforce. I would have reinforced it by getting off & ending on a good note then.

Quote:
Also when I discipline her she doesn't stop her bad behavior she get's angrier and angrier till she about explodes. I don't know if we are having a disconnect in communication or what.
It's obvious you're not communicating. By 'discipline' I gather you mean 'punish'. It sounds like just sitting on her at this point in time is punishment enough, so I'd be working towards changing that association so she learns that it's not bad to be ridden first. At the moment, it sounds like you're doing something she finds unpleasant(whether through fear, discomfort, 'anger'...), so she is reacting to try to communicate this to you & get rid of the discomfort, but you're responding by adding further discomfort/anger which is only making matters worse.

I'd be focussing on reinforcing any & every 'good' behaviour you get & not asking for too much for a while. Think starting at 'kindergarten' level & gradual improvement built on success, rather than trying to force her to instantly be a trail horse(or whatever) without preparation. Think setting her up for life & to enjoy dealing with people. Think about alternatives to confrontational approaches.

Quote:
I noticed the lunging cooled her down and diffused the situation.
It does sound like she could be an assertive character too, so wearing her out with lunging just reduced the energy she had to try to keep 'communicating' with you. But one of the(many) reasons I don't agree with lunging for this purpose is that you're not working on the actual problem & she is only going to get fitter with that tactic, so be harder to wear out in future.

[/quote]I think part of the problem is she doesn't want to leave my gelding which I can move him away. Also perhaps we need to reintroduce more respect work and obviously I need to ride her everyday possible consistently.[/quote]

If you've only trained easy, *****cat horses, it can be confusing & frustrating the first time you come across one that won't conform to your ideas - I remember my own horsey teacher to that regard very well still!

First point above, as mentioned, I'd start developing your relationship wherever she's comfortable. Horses are herd animals that don't feel safe away from their 'herd' or familiar environment, and she's obviously not yet feeling safe & comfortable being ridden in any environment yet, so I'd work on getting her happy & trusting of you first before trying to take her out of her comfort zone further.

What does 'reintroduce respect work' mean to you? I think working on a respectful relationship is vital but I suspect your perception of the term is quite different to mine. Of course working her regularly will mean more practice, so she'll get solid on lessons quicker(good and bad - less practice at bad the better), but working her every day isn't necessary.

Quote:
But there has to be a way to stop this hateful behavior,
I think it sounds like that's exactly what she's trying to figure out & attempting to do with the bucking & rearing. Sounds like you both need to communicate better & learn to respect eachother. As you've got the bigger brain and you're the one who wants this relationship, I think it's up to you to first show her you are listening & respectful of her, that she can trust you, so you can earn respect from her.
     
    10-04-2012, 12:24 AM
  #7
Started
Loosie She isnt in an unfamiliar environment she has been living in the place been up and down these trails more times then I can count. I do agree her original training was not sufficient. She is the only horse of mine I did not start myself ( my mom's fiance just HAD to do the training he didnt think I could do it) sigh oh well we won't go into that...anyways and inconsistant riding over the years has made what we have today. I didnt not mention this in my post (forgot) before I rode her when we did a few minutes on lunge time I had her saddled. She didn't not show any fear or discomfort with the saddle nor did I have any problems putting it on her. I did check for that. I also wanted to watch her movement to look for stiffness or obvious discomfort. As for do I think she is having a fear issue with me maybe yes maybe no. Although I haven't rode her I halter her tie her up brush her mess with her pick up her feet move her to pressure on the ground so its not like she has gone untouched with no human contact. I've played with her but haven't rode her is all. If I had a way of filming when I worked her you would see she doesn't want to leave my gelding. I think your perception on with how I train is a lil off but I probably didnt discribe it good enough or use the best words to describe and that you have to go so sorry . I agree with Cherie I think we need to do so separation work with her and my gelding. As for the not communicating we definitely aren't but I think we can figure it out. I'm not used to a horse who can be so agressive I admit but I think with sorting out a way we can communicate what we want I believe that will change. That was basically what I was wanting idea on how to communicate better with her. Also I had her back checked before I decided to start her again the chiropractor came over a few days ago. Her longing session just so you know wasn't for long probably 5 minutes at a trot working in both directions. So tomorrow we are getting the driving reins out. I jumped the gun on trying to ride her but we ended the day on a good note not a bad one so I don't think this will effect her training wise. But I admit I made things harder for the both of us. This is my chance to start her from the beginning and give her the foundation that she needs and we can have a better relationship like we did when I used to 4-H halter show her. I don't think she fully trusts me so I gotta build a better bridge. I want to thank you for your input Loosie I agree with some of the things you said. I think you and I differ a little on training methods but everybody has their own . I have the confidence to make this work. I'm ready to start over and start fresh with her at the beginning. I'm a patient trainer when she got upset I didn't get angry with her and stayed calm and tried to reassure her. I'm just glad some old cowboy wasn't riding her she would of probably been beaten and whacked on the head for rearing ( sadly I've seen that happen to horses).
Posted via Mobile Device
loosie likes this.
     
    10-04-2012, 12:55 AM
  #8
Showing
When horses are together this represents security. Take a horse out of that situation and it worries it will be eaten as the gelding is likely the horse that watches out for the two of them. One method I've had succes with is to lead the horse away from the pasture. The moment it begins to get upset, take it back so it can see it's buddy. Then walk away again, back and forth. You will gradually be able to get farther away and stay longer. What is happening is that at the point where the horse is upset, his stress level is high. Returning offers relief. By going back and forth the stress is like an elevator, top floor, basement, top floor, etc. The mind can do this only so long and seeks relief. That is when you can keep walking farther away. It may take 20 min. Or it may take an hour but it does work.
     
    10-04-2012, 12:55 AM
  #9
Trained
Quote:
I think your perception on with how I train is a lil off but I probably didnt discribe it good enough... I want to thank you for your input Loosie I agree with some of the things you said. I think you and I differ a little on training methods but everybody has their own .
No worries I think we all listen/read/experience things influenced by the perceptions of our past experiences & learning too. The world is full of opinions... especially the horse world! I reckon learning all you can, weighing it up and then making up your own mind is the best any of us can do ... oh and keeping an open mind & learning more!
     
    10-04-2012, 01:00 AM
  #10
Started
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
When horses are together this represents security. Take a horse out of that situation and it worries it will be eaten as the gelding is likely the horse that watches out for the two of them. One method I've had succes with is to lead the horse away from the pasture. The moment it begins to get upset, take it back so it can see it's buddy. Then walk away again, back and forth. You will gradually be able to get farther away and stay longer. What is happening is that at the point where the horse is upset, his stress level is high. Returning offers relief. By going back and forth the stress is like an elevator, top floor, basement, top floor, etc. The mind can do this only so long and seeks relief. That is when you can keep walking farther away. It may take 20 min. Or it may take an hour but it does work.
That makes sense I do something similar to teach horses not to trot or run home when we are done riding. If they trot close to home they have to go back down the trail if the walk they can go home.
Posted via Mobile Device
     

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Suggestions for fun training? Silver Wings Horse Training 13 07-04-2012 09:10 AM
Training book suggestions snoggle Horse Training 17 07-28-2011 04:27 PM
Training suggestions. TTristan788 Horse Training 1 12-27-2010 04:49 PM
Training Update and suggestions needed! coelh102 Horse Training 10 11-21-2009 12:32 PM
Suggestions for a training program Ruby Tuesday Horse Training 3 11-08-2008 06:59 AM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0