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Neck reining

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    11-20-2012, 04:17 PM
  #11
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by PunksTank    
I completely agree with using your entire body to control a horse, and while you could use a snaffle to teach the 'pre-cue' of the neck rein, it's faster and less confusing to teach it using the proper bit for the job.

Disagree. It's easier just to teach it with the snaffle, like you SHOULD teach everything else as well. Curb bits weren't designed to teach neck reining. They were designed to increase finesse, to be able to get the best result with the least amount of effort. If you have the snaffle, you have the ability to pick up lateral flexion much better than in the curb (Or at least one without a joint, like the one you posted) which is preferable. I teach my horses to neck rein also by curling around my inside leg, so often I need to reach down and pick up the inside or outside rein to get the nose where it needs to be. There is not nearly the level of finesse or refinement with a mullen or solid mouthpiece. That is a type of bit I would put on a bendy barrel horse to stiffen them up to run, but not something I would put on a horse until it already KNEW how to neck rein in case I needed to reinforce the cue with the snaffle.

To teach neck reining with a snaffle, you use your whole body, touch the rein to the horse's neck and if he doesn't move you bump the other rein to turn his head.

You can bump to turn its head but you need to get the haunch turn in there like I said to move the shoulder. I very rarely bump the nose unless I need the extra follow through or if I need to frame up or like I said above get them curling around my inside leg. You get the shoulder and the rest of the body into the rein, not just the nose or you get a bowing shoulder or a dropped shoulder.

Where as if you have the proper bit you don't have to add the bump you just have to move your hand a little further over to shorten that outside rein a little more. So rather than adding a whole new step you just increase the pressure.

There is no "proper bit", as I explained before. If your horse knows how to move all the body parts neck reining is easy as pie to teach.

YES if you ever change any piece of the horse's tack please give them time to get used to it before jumping on and expecting magic to happen.
Practice the skills from the ground and mounted at the stand still until they're solid, just like teaching a horse to direct rein for the first time.

If you teach them to neck rein in the snaffle, going to the new bit will require nothing but a loose rein and getting on. Another reason to not step up.

Once the horse knows the pre-cue of the rein touching the horse's neck you could ride him in any bit or no bit or just a rope around his neck if all the rest of your riding is solid enough. Heck if they listen well enough to your seat and body you don't need anything. But most people and horses aren't that finely trained and need the proper tools for the proper job until they are that well trained.

If your horse doesn't know how to haunch turn at LEAST they have no business trying to add the new button until they get shoulder control IMO. The bit and the nose won't cut it.
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    11-20-2012, 04:23 PM
  #12
Started
I taught her to neckrein with the snaffle, and then stopped using it and only a lead rope. I just figured I would ask and make sure that I do it right, so I think i'm okay
     
    11-20-2012, 06:14 PM
  #13
Started
Sorrel horse- I see where you're coming from but I still disagree. Let me be clear and say in all i've said so far i'm just comparing the action of the bits. Teaching a horse to turn, direct or neck reining takes so much more than just pulling a rein - but when just comparing which bit to use I always use a curb for neck reining and a snaffle for direct- always.
You should never direct rein in a curb, if the horse doesn't yet know how to turn with neck reining and you have a solid curb bit in their mouth you just have to move the rein further over to increase the pressure. Assuming they already know how to give to pressure on their bars- if they direct rein already they should. You should never have to use the inside rein.
When you turn left with a curb (ignoring everything else your body should be communicating-just talking about reins and bits right now) you neck rein left, your right rein is shortened. In a solid curb the right side of the bit picks up, off the rught bars, into the right cheek a tiny bit and pushing down on the left bar. If the horse doesnt respond with that and your entire body increase the pressure, same with all other types of pressure and release type training. With that you should never need to direct rein.

But to each their own, both methods work so whichever one the op is more comfortable with she should go with.
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    11-20-2012, 06:24 PM
  #14
Banned
Quote:
Originally Posted by PunksTank    
Sorrel horse- I see where you're coming from but I still disagree. Let me be clear and say in all i've said so far i'm just comparing the action of the bits. Teaching a horse to turn, direct or neck reining takes so much more than just pulling a rein - but when just comparing which bit to use I always use a curb for neck reining and a snaffle for direct- always.
You should never direct rein in a curb, if the horse doesn't yet know how to turn with neck reining and you have a solid curb bit in their mouth you just have to move the rein further over to increase the pressure. Assuming they already know how to give to pressure on their bars- if they direct rein already they should. You should never have to use the inside rein.
When you turn left with a curb (ignoring everything else your body should be communicating-just talking about reins and bits right now) you neck rein left, your right rein is shortened. In a solid curb the right side of the bit picks up, off the rught bars, into the right cheek a tiny bit and pushing down on the left bar. If the horse doesnt respond with that and your entire body increase the pressure, same with all other types of pressure and release type training. With that you should never need to direct rein.

But to each their own, both methods work so whichever one the op is more comfortable with she should go with.
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Punks....I'm having a hard time with how you say for example: neck reining to the left, the right rein is shortened' that is not so....the rein is just laying against the neck, not shortened, and as soon as the horse moves off the rein on the neck it loses contact....I never shorten my reins and the action of the horse moving doesn't shorten the rein either, because he has moved off it....pressure and release.....and bumping a horses nose over with a curb or a snaffle doesn't matter....because its just a bump....Insignificant in terms of trainng....a lot of good trainers 'bump' in a curb.....
     
    11-20-2012, 06:35 PM
  #15
Started
I'm referrin to while they're still learning. The rein touching their neck is a pre-cue - once they understand the rein touching their neck you can ride with slack enough reins to not touch their mouth. But at that point you hardly need a bit at all and any bit or non bit will do as I previously stated. While they're still learning the reins should be short enought reach the bit.

So when your neck rein left, you lay the rein on the righ of their neck to push them off that pressure, this shortens the right rein a tiny bit, if no response, move your hand further which shortens the right rein more. When the right rein is shortened, the bit tilts in their mouth relieving any pressure on the right bar and adding pressure to the left bar- thus signaling a left turn. Same with any other pressure and release training you apply pressure and wait for a response, increasing if they're ignoring it.
To be clear yet again i'm just referring to whats happening with the bits nkt everything else your body should be doing to signal a turn.
Once they understand the pre-cue of the rein on their neck your reins can become more and more slack until it's not touching the bit at all. At this point it doesn't matter whats in their mouth or what's not.

You can do it either way, this is my preferred method and the horses i've worked with picked it up very quickly. Along with the horses who the trainers who taught me about this way of teaching neck reining.
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    11-20-2012, 06:48 PM
  #16
Banned
Punks....I still don't understand how it works to shorten an outside rein to teach neck reining....I 'lay' the rein on the neck, ask him to move over with my leg....and if that doesn't cue a response I bump with the direct rein.....to me shortening the outside rein to the point of actually applying pressure to the horses mouth is sending a mixed signal.....each to their own.....let agree to disagree here
     
    11-20-2012, 08:40 PM
  #17
Started
I get what you're saying Punks, hands up and over.

Though when I was teaching my mare, to neck rein it was really close to the base of her neck
     
    11-20-2012, 09:24 PM
  #18
Trained
I do not see any reason to talk about how bits work when we are talking about teaching a cue with minimal contact at all. Obviously bits are important but this cue must be subtle from the start.

To me, training is training, training is done in a snaffle.

When the horse can go loose rein in a snaffle we will step up into the bridle. I don't plan on taking a whole ride to teach a young horse how to neck rein in a bit "designed" (In punks terms) for it, because then there's no follow through.

I show in only jointed curbs because I can do both lateral, vertical flexion and the finesse of the neck rein as well.

Never having to use the inside rein is a very definite term. I use the inside rein all the time. Lift the shoulders, counter arc, bend, counter canter, even one handed there are uses for the inside rein. Balance; Outside and inside hand, both legs, seat. Some are more subtle at time but as long as the reins are attached to the bit there will be use for all of those cues.

I'm afraid I don't see how your logic about the bits is working, Punk. I'd rather do all my training in a diverse bit than reserve a solid curb for teaching the neck rein. I don't use solid curbs at all anymore anyway unless I have the most bendy horse imagineable.
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    11-21-2012, 12:16 AM
  #19
Started
To each their own I suppose :) I don't think I'm explaining the way it works well enough for anyone to understand- maybe someone else can better explain it. But either way, both ways work, use the one that makes sense to you.
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    11-21-2012, 09:58 AM
  #20
Trained
I teach my horses to neck rein by using both the direct rein and the indirect rein at the same time. Eventually, they will respond to the indirect rein alone. I never have made it a big project to try and teach the horse in a short time. I just persistently use both types of reining until she responds easily to neck reining.
     

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