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Need advice for disrespectful TWH

2K views 13 replies 7 participants last post by  Normal Guy 
#1 ·
I purchased a 6 year old TWH gelding several months ago. When I first acquired him, he was generally disrespectful and pushy. Althought, I have made great strides with him, he still has some very annoying behaviors that I have not been able to resolve. One of those behaviors is that he lays his ears back whenever I, or anyone else, approaches his stall. He used to bite, but he rarely attempts to bite me because he knows he will face quick and severe discipline. He will, however, attempt to bite others. He also seems to detest grooming. When grooming he won't stand still and seems to genuinely dislike being brushed. Any suggestions for how I can cure both of these annoying behaviors?
 
#5 ·
I did think of possible physical cause. I had heard that biting often is due to dental problem. Had his teeth floated shortly after I bought him. Vet said that his teeth were in good condition. No other known physical problems, but I will keep a close eye on him for possible physical discomfort that could be causing his grouchy disposition.
 
#4 ·
That's pretty sucky to walk up to a stall and get bitten! Well, I have a thought on this, but not sure if it's enough or correct. I am no pro.
But the biting comes after he's already been thinking about biting. I mean, he thinks about for abit before doing it. So your job would be to intereupt him every time he starts thinking that way. Signs of such thinking would be pinning ears, curling lips back , stiffing neck. I would use a whip and when I approach his stall, if he pins his ears at me I would instantly slap the wood of the stall with a good noise. That will knock his brain out of that sort of thinking.

next time he does it, (and catch it when that thinking first starts), say "Ah!" short and sharp and smack the wall or your boot or anything that will startle him out of that thinking. After a bit, just going "ah@!" when you see that stink eye on him will knock him out of it. When he does put his ears forward, do nothing. Don't go cuddle him. Just say nothing, or a very small, "good boy".

Groom him in short bursts. Groom a bit, turn away, a bit, walk away, and use soft brushes. If while grooming he tries to bite you, smack him a good one in the cheek or jaw. Keep the whip in your left hand if you need to and bop him good withe the knob whip handle. But if you do this, after this you must be consistent in how far back you will allow him to reach around. You can't punish for reaching around once, then think "isn't he being good" and then allow hime to reach around the next time as much as he wants.

If he starts being nice consistently, then you can allow more reach around, but with a biter, I would not let him reach around back beyond 45 degrees off the point of his shoulder.
 
#8 ·
He may just be a horse who has learned he really doesn't like interactions with people. What did he do before you bought him? Was he ever shown in either flat shod or big lick? Often I have seen horses come out of that environment with really sour attitudes towards humans. I won't say that I blame some of them. While there are very good TWH trainers out there, there are also some pretty brutal ones.

I like what Tiny suggests, though I hesitate to ever hit on the head. When a horse tries to bite me, I use one good whack on the front of the cannon bone to show my disapproval. That has worked well for me.

Use the praise for when he behaves well. If he decides to bond with you, it may be slow for him to trust you. Be persistent in your good attention but very CONSISTENT.
 
#9 ·
I had never seen a horse who didn't like to be brushed until moving into my last stable. There was three in there and all three would bite you in the stall but not when in the arena/pasture.

Just came to the conclusion they genuinely dislike or feel pain when brushed and associate being pulled out of the stall with pain because the next step is brushing. You've got to remember their skin is quite a bit more sensitive then ours. Try limiting how much you brush and bath instead to see if that helps.
 
#10 ·
I am certain that he was never shown in flat shod or big lick. His owner told me that the horse was imprinted as a foal. However, I am wondering if he was not imprinted properly. I have heard that faulty imprinting can lead to life long behavior problems for a horse.
 
#11 ·
I have a 16-1/2 yr old TWH that has been with me since he was 2-1/2. You could be talking about my Fella.

He quit doing all that stuff once I accidentally discovered he is oat/corn/soy intolerant.

I say accidentally because I my senior TWH was diagnosed with Equine Metabolic Syndrome 4+ years ago. I took all my horses off grain and vit/mins with soy in them to make my feeding life simple and it wouldn't hurt anyone to eat like the Type II diabetic guy.

Imagine my surprise when the guy with Snarky disposition mellowed so much that even my non-horse husband noticed the difference. Also, when I removed oats, corn & soy, it became the first time ever that I didn't need the riding crop in the bath bucket:lol:

This horse is also prone do dust/mold/pollen allergies. All Tri-Hist did was amp him up and make him a nut case. I now keep him on an herbal allergy blend during the warm months and he's fine.

He is so food sensitive that even adding TWO soaked alfalfa cubes to his supplements twice daily can make him a little testy.

He is also Generator-bred which, the older line of Generator TWH's were known to have a bit of a snotty disposition because they were bred for the show ring and way over-produced. My guy even inherited a less-than-Grade 1 club hoof from The Old Man, as he is referred to in my area:)

While Rusty is still not 100% in the personality department, he's improved by 90% to where I am ok with adults that are horse savvy walking around him.

However, he will always naturally be a horse who will take the Proverbial mile if you give him an inch. An intermediate rider wearing a "no-fear t-shirt could easily ride him, but a 20 year "experienced" rider that is really timid wouldn't stand a snowball's chance after the first 60 seconds.

I have no regrets hanging onto him all these years to keep him alive because even his mother would have sent him packing when he was at his food allergy worst. He's a fantastic trail horse and literally saved my husband from disaster on the trail once.

I said all that because I'm not saying your guy won't always need some "reminders" because that's who he is, but it may help to change his diet.

As soon as you said your horse doesn't like to be brushed, I thought he's probably got food allergies just like Rusty did.

I always used to say Rusty was uncomfortable in his own skin but I wasn't smart enough to figure it out on my own --- the other horse becoming EMS saved Rusty. Even his facial expression is a lot softer since I took him off grain.
 
#12 ·
Wow! I never considered a food allergy or the like. Walkinthewalk, you may have broken this case wide open. My big guy, Nick, is also from the Generator line. And I realize that those offspring can be a bit grumpy by nature. But his behavior is beyond grumpy. I noted that you "accidentally" discovered Rusty's food intolerances and his other allergies (dust, mold, and pollen). How did those discoveries occur? Do you know if a vet test for such things (food intollerances and allergies) or do you have to discover this via some sort of trial & error process? I will definitely investigate this possible cause of Nick's behavior issues. Thanks for the tip!!
 
#13 · (Edited)
1. Yes, vets can check for food allergies and also dust/mold/pollen allergies.

2. The dust/mold/pollen allergies were discovered a couple years prior to the food allergies. Rusty didn't have them until we moved to the Tennessee Valley, a/k/a Allergy Purgatory, according to my vet - lol And to top it all off, the vet said I am lucky enough to live on the worst end of the county for them.

I didn't have to have Rusty tested. Once the weathermen started talking about pollen count, Rusty's eyes and nose started watering and he was sneezing and coughing. The vet took one look at him, said "welcome to the Tennessee Valley" and put him on TriHist :lol::lol:

Rusty was on Tri-Hist seasonally but I hated how it amped him up and even made his face look ugly. When I started buying herbs from Equine Science for my other horse's metabolic issues, I mentioned Rusty's airborne allergies.

He sent me a sample of his Herbal Allergy Blend for Rusty. I noticed a difference in 24 hours and within 72 hours his "sneezing/coughing/hacking" had completely disappeared and he was even a lot more calm.

Discovering the food allergies calmed him even more --- he is so close to a "normal" in-your-pocket TWH personality that it's scary:lol::lol:

3. I discovered the food allergies thru my other horse that has metabolic issues. I had to take the metabolic horse completely off grain and any products with soy in them.

It was easier on me to feed all my horses the same as the metabolic horse, plus I knew it would be a healthy diet for everyone in that it was a low starch/non-soy diet.

That's how I found out about the food allergies and was kicking myself for being so stupid all those years with Rusty. That poor guy could have avoided a lot of whuppins if only I'd realized what was wrong.

I wish I had pictures of Rusty when he was being Mr. Evil Face because the softness in his eyes now is a completely different horse. He now enjoys being brushed (and I used a hard bristled plastic brush, plus the Furminator) and he loves to be vacuumed; neither of which appealed to him before food allergies were discovered.

I sure hope that's all it is with your Fella because it's an easy fix. He will probably still need some discipline from time-to-time.

Rusty has become a horse who can be 25' in front of me, going thru the stall gate into the main aisle and all I have to say is "Rusty whoa, step back; step back for a cookie" and Lord Love Him, he does exactly that. He could easily go right down aisle and out the other end of the barn, like the Arab does when he knows I can't reach him - lollol

EDITED TO ADD: Is the horse in your avatar the Fella we're talking about? He looks quite a bit like my Big Guy. This was Rusty's first ride in well over a year but he stood perfect at the trailer and went down the road like we'd been going every day. That is his "oh s**t, she really is going to make me work" look - lollol
 
#14 ·
EDITED TO ADD: Is the horse in your avatar the Fella we're talking about? He looks quite a bit like my Big Guy. This was Rusty's first ride in well over a year but he stood perfect at the trailer and went down the road like we'd been going every day. That is his "oh s**t, she really is going to make me work" look - lollol
Those photos are of Nick alright. He is 16.2 hands of brutish Tennessee Walker. He looks remarkably similar to your big fella. Again, thanks for all of this great information. I am considering taking Nick to the Rood & Riddle Equine Clinic in Lexington, KY. I hear some remarkable things about that place. I think it will be worth taking him there for a full work up and evaluation. I aleady have invested loads of time and money in that horse and I feel that it will be money well spent to get some solid answers about his troublesome behavioral issues. Thanks!
 
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