Need a dangerous trail situation dealt with. - Page 3 - The Horse Forum
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post #21 of 62 Old 06-30-2012, 10:52 AM
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What it will take all depends on how 'broke' he is -- or I should say 'was' -- before he got spoiled.

If he was pretty well broke before, all it should take is someone that is bold and assertive to spank his butt and he will go right on and be OK. This will work quickly as long as he does not have a timid rider riding him. I just use a long pair of harness leather reins and use an 'over and under' motion so I can spank one on both sides very quickly. This makes the horse go forward where a crop or spanking on one side just makes the horse 'duck around' and he is facing the barn -- again.

This works better than all of the 'nagging', 'pecking' and trying to wear one out or trick one. They understand the direct approach just like they instantly understand a herd member telling them to move their butt of get a hunk eaten out of it. The herd leader does not use an indirect or nagging approach -- ever. But, it only works if the horse is broke enough to know what it is supposed to be doing.

If a horse was very green and not very good at going forward (lacked good forward impulsion) and not very good at guiding (following its nose) to begin with, then it needs a competent rider / trainer to teach it what it should be doing. More training is necessary and not just a quick correction for a bad behavior.

We never use a second horse to get a horse going nor do we ever lead one. They just get 'herd-bound' to that horse and still never get very 'broke'. Ground work often does little when you try to transfer it to 'under-saddle' work if the rider is inexperienced and lacks skill. The horse quickly learns 'who is in charge' when they are ridden. Ground driving transfers quite well to under saddle work, but, like riding, requires skill, feel and timing. A broke horse goes where you point its head. That should always be your object and that should be what you try to learn to get done. Anything less is just a band-aid and it will come back and bite you later.
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post #22 of 62 Old 06-30-2012, 11:05 AM
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From the ground you need to teach him to move his hips over, not a side step but a forward and step under his belly step. Lightly tap his hip with a lunge whip or long willow branch and stay out of kicking range. Bend his neck/head a little first, then tap the hip. It may be a partial step, just repeat. When he starts to move be sure not to tap. Keep this up until he can complete a circle, taking it one step at a time. Then the other side. When he gives you trouble when riding, draw his nose around and make his hips move. Many riders circle the front end which is easy for the horse to do. Instead you want to move his hips over and forward, as this is far more tiring for him. It gets harder for him to get stupid when doing this. Move your heel back about the length of your foot and tap his ribs with your heel, like the annoying little brother tap.
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post #23 of 62 Old 06-30-2012, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not a beginner, but I'm not a professional either. I've been used to exercise rough horses. I'd be happy to boss him the way I used to be able to, but the misfortune is the area we are in: hills, hills, rocks, hills, rocks, ditches.

I believe his purpose with his last rider was to go on trail rides with others. And, while I did trail ride him very often with a partner at RHR, it was never the same horse twice, and I did a lot of pushing him to the lead. He hated being the leader in a lot of things (like going into the water), but after the first couple of rounds, he grew used to it and did what I asked. Eventually, I was able to walk him down the front drive-way and have almost no problems. Now, while I understand this place is new to him, I can do that. I can't even ride him at "home" without some issue.

Really, it's irked me a lot that about 3 months of good, consistant, hard work went in the toilet because my "trainer" and "friend" couldn't keep a deal, and sold him to someone else for less. Someone who didn't know the horse, spend any time with the horse, etc.

And that's my mini-rant of the day.

Maybe I can post a video of the next ride.

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post #24 of 62 Old 06-30-2012, 04:41 PM
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Do not drink anything. Although if you are sweating much, that won't be a problem as far as going to bathroom. And don't worry about another buddy to drag along, either horse or rider.

Make sure you go to bathroom before you go, and then just ride out. When he balks, just make sure he is facing in way YOU want to go. And just sit.

Nothing more. Just...SIT THERE. No battling, no trying to move his feet, no trying to urge him forwards. Just sit there, facing the way he wants to go. If he begins to back, circle him to the correct direction, and then sit.

Don't fight with him, not any. As long as he is facing the way you want to ride? Just sit there.

IF he moves a foot in right direction, let him go, NO PRAISING AND NO PATTING!!!! In fact, don't even make it apparent that you have noticed he is moving, other than to let him move, but only in the correct direction.

And NO TALKING to him at all! Silence.

Be prepared for this to take a while, some horses are much more stubborn than others, others will ride out fairly quickly, once they realize there is nothing to battle against. Once horse thinks it is your idea to stand around? Many times it ceases to be such fun.

And the NO battling, talking, or fighting with horse? Makes horse think you really don't care whether you sit there all day or not. And horse then decides moving off in correct direction makes sense, since it isn't YOUR idea.

As long as horse is moving in right direction, let him do so. If he turns to barn, or begins backing? Halt him, turn to the direction you want to go in, and go back to sitting.

Do stay alert though, and wear a hat and sunscreen.

Also, and this is only if you can mount easily, take a little bit of grain, and feed him away from barn. And I don't mean within sight of barn either, but away from it. Those days don't grain at barn.

Again, the key to this is NO praising, NO petting, and NO fighting with horse.

As to round penning, you can do it also if you have good corner of fencing, that gives you two sides, and you can just hold lunge line and keep horse in circle, IF horse respects you. For this? I would not just use a halter but rather have a headstall set up with smooth snaffle, and use lines made out of the soft rope, about diameter of pencil, that you can burn ends to melt?

Take a swivel snap, not a large one, and run it through the ring on swivel snap, and the fold back, with needle and thread, (good quilting thread) sew through the two pieces, and whip around it too, so rope is sewed to itself, and then bind around that with black electrical tape. Needs to be 25 feet long.

With headstall on, from the side you will be facing as lunge, run swivel snap through the bit ring, over poll and down to other ring. Will have to swap it when horse is going other direction. This gives you more control than a halter does.

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post #25 of 62 Old 06-30-2012, 04:45 PM
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As a couple others have said, I've had good luck making them back up until going forward starts to look good to them. I saw 20yds mentioned, I make them back up much farther than that if there's room to do it. Usually a couple good backing sessions shows them that it's not getting them what they want.
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post #26 of 62 Old 06-30-2012, 05:36 PM
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I like the do nothing idea. I used that once. There was a wood pile that my horse would not pass no matter what. I literally sat there on him one day and read a book until he finally gave in and calmly walked past it.

I'm really glad my horse hasn't figured out the backing up thing. My friend has a mare who has backed down steep hills on trails without a second thought just to get out of going where she doesn't want to go. That horse is 23 and still does it to this day. Rider is a very confident rider and has tried everything. I guess some horses really do out stubborn us.

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post #27 of 62 Old 06-30-2012, 06:41 PM
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I'm lucky. The last time my mare did the "I'm going to back up and you can't stop me" thing, she had her rump headed to a large yucca plant. When I saw that, I held on to the horn and waited for the impact.

About 30 yards down the trail, Mia slowed and tried to figure out what went wrong with her plan...

My daughter passing a yucca plant while riding our gelding:

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post #28 of 62 Old 06-30-2012, 06:46 PM
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that's fantastic! I would have loved to see that mare's face when she backed into that thing. That must have really messed with her head!

Originally Posted by bsms View Post
I'm lucky. The last time my mare did the "I'm going to back up and you can't stop me" thing, she had her rump headed to a large yucca plant. When I saw that, I held on to the horn and waited for the impact.

About 30 yards down the trail, Mia slowed and tried to figure out what went wrong with her plan...

My daughter passing a yucca plant while riding our gelding:

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post #29 of 62 Old 06-30-2012, 07:11 PM
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Alright I didn't read the whole thread, sorry.

But what he is doing is disrespectul. What I would do is work his a$$ off next to the pasture or barn or wherever home is for him and make him sweat without a break. Figure eights at the trot or lope does it, be really aggressive with him, more than normal. Then take him right out to the trail or beginning of the trail and let him stand still, breathe, and rest. Then once hebcatches his breath go right back to the home place and repeat the process.

Now he knows home means work and trail means rest. Keep doing that. Also, when you come back from a trail ride, work him hard like that too then go to the beginning of the trail again and let him stand. Get off, pet him, loosen your cinch and walk him back to be untacked.

Now this could fix your problem, but when you do go out on a trail ride and he starts backin up, grab face to your boot and make him face whatever he is backing up to and then haul his butt backwards like you want to kill him, then forget it happened and ask him to continue down the trail casually, petting him, being kind.

If the situation becomes dangerous to the point where you do not feel safe on his back, get off and use the end o your reins/crop to swat him on the hip and chase his butt around in a circle for a minute. This gets his attention because you take his feet away, establishing yourself as dominant and you are also taking yourself out of the situation as well.

All this boils down to is making the right thing easy by being calm when he is doing right, petting him and letting him rest. But when something goes wrong, let him have it. You won't hurt him.
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post #30 of 62 Old 06-30-2012, 07:13 PM
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That's hilarious, I've had the misfortune of being poked by one and it's not a lesson you forget.
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