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New to the forums seeking help

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        09-14-2009, 04:42 PM
      #1
    Foal
    New to the forums seeking help

    I have a 2 1/2 year old quarter horse. He is only green broke and I rode him at the previous owners house a couple times before I brought him home. I have been working with him for a couple months now and he seems to be getting slightly better. (pushy in my space and disrespectful) This weekend I went to a Clinton Anderson Semantic and took a million notes. I bought his rope halter, lead rope and training stick. I came home and studied his notes for a long time then with confidence went out to start "gaining respect"

    His first thing was to establish my space and keep the horse out of it. After a little work this seemed to work well. Then we started lunging and sense he was fighting it and coming back into my space we worked on it in one direction for a while. Then we worked the other direction.

    He continued to come in my space so I worked on the backing exercise. The first couple times he did great. Then he rared not at me but rared. I was not concered and corrected him waited for him to relax after backing well then petted him. At some point he became frustrated again only now he rares and lunges at me.

    My delima is once he realized I would move this became his thing to do. I know I created a monster but any suggestions on how to continue working with him without fearing the second he doesnt like something I do he will come at me raring?
         
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        09-14-2009, 05:37 PM
      #2
    Started
    IMO Clinton's approach is aggressive and a lot of horses will not tolorate such insensitive behavior from the human. My warmblood would be one of them, he would really really hurt Clinton, seriously. So it's possible you were too aggressive and went over the line to being unfair for this particular horse. Just a thought.
         
        09-14-2009, 08:25 PM
      #3
    Foal
    Round pen and inside turns
         
        09-14-2009, 08:56 PM
      #4
    Weanling
    This is why sometimes seminars can be a bad thing. Of all the famous trainers out there though I have to say Clinton is one of the better ones. Problem is you can buy their sticks, halters, lines etc but it wont make any difference if you don't know how to use them effectively. Honestly it doesnt matter whose halter you use its getting to why your horse dis respects you. I would hire a local reputable trainer to come to your farm and help you. This usually works much better then reading or trying to help you from a forum. Please don't take that the wrong way its always good to ask for help, but we cannot see what you are doing and what the horse is doing. There are many subtle things that go on causing this kind of behavior and without seeing it it is hard to advise

    Kay
         
        09-14-2009, 10:48 PM
      #5
    Foal
    Thank you for your responses. I appreciate all of them. As far as being to harsh I don't think I was. I didnt even have to tap him with the training stick just the air worked. I never raised my voice or got angry and when he did something I asked I stopped and petted him.

    Unfortunately I do not have a round pen so we where doing this on the lead. I know that somewhere I was in the wrong as Kahuna was only responding to my actions.

    I guess my question is. How do I start over. Now that he has learned to rare and strike out at me I am worried that tomorrow when I put the lead on him and try to walk him around, if that's not what he wants to do he know's how to get out of doing it.

    I have been reluctant of trainers as I don't like all the hitting and excessive jerking on my horse. Maybe I am being unreasonable. I just thought that we could accomplish respect with out physical. I want my horses respect without him fearing me. If that makes sense. And I know its earned and not given. I am very open to any constuctive criticism so don't worry about offending me

    Thank you all for your input.
         
        09-14-2009, 11:27 PM
      #6
    Foal
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kahuna    
    Thank you for your responses. I appreciate all of them. As far as being to harsh I don't think I was. I didnt even have to tap him with the training stick just the air worked. I never raised my voice or got angry and when he did something I asked I stopped and petted him.

    Unfortunately I do not have a round pen so we where doing this on the lead. I know that somewhere I was in the wrong as Kahuna was only responding to my actions.

    I guess my question is. How do I start over. Now that he has learned to rare and strike out at me I am worried that tomorrow when I put the lead on him and try to walk him around, if that's not what he wants to do he know's how to get out of doing it.

    I have been reluctant of trainers as I don't like all the hitting and excessive jerking on my horse. Maybe I am being unreasonable. I just thought that we could accomplish respect with out physical. I want my horses respect without him fearing me. If that makes sense. And I know its earned and not given. I am very open to any constuctive criticism so don't worry about offending me

    Thank you all for your input.
    I know that this is going to sound harsh, but sometimes a good whack is what a horse needs to get the point across. Watch them in the herd... if a lesser horse shows disrespect or acts out of line, what will the dominant horse do? Whack em! With their hooves, their teeth, to get their point across. Do your homework on local trainers, ask around to get opinions on who is good and who isn't. Find a trainer that has an education in natural horsemanship if you can, excessive hitting or jerking around definitely is not the answer.. I would fire a trainer in a heart beat for that.

    I had the same problem with my horse, not as drastic though, he hasn't rared up on me but he will pin his ears and throw his head up and come at me which tells me the teeth are coming if I don't do something fast. The way I started over was by going back to square one and simply worked on trust. No pressure, I would approach him... give him a rub and a small piece of carrot and I would back off... just to let him know that I'm not there to make him work or stress him out, and the next day I would do the same thing. Over and over again. I would sit within the herd and just watch and listen, again.. no pressure. Eventually he forgave his poorly trained owner and was willing to give it another shot. Biggest thing is patience and a ton of it.
         
        09-14-2009, 11:37 PM
      #7
    Foal
    Yeah I understand some whacking, (my farrier came and was doing his feet, when he moved his back foot she took the lead and slugged him accross the shoulder then jerked on his halter hard. That's what kinda got me bothered.

    I went out tonight 3 times to give him carrots and pet him. He took the carrots and wanted no part of the petting and when the carrots where gone he pinned his ears and got agressive trying to get to my hands. So I patted his neck and came inside. I guess alot of time and patients which I'm full of. I was just in tears earlier and terrified that I had ruind him and the progress we have made so far. My next step is removing MY fear as just going out to feed him now is frightening for me.
         
        09-14-2009, 11:59 PM
      #8
    Foal
    Are you sure there isn't something physical going on with him? Make sure there are no ailments that could be causing him to act up. He can smell your fear, I know Milo can... he can sense it in just the way I walk up to him whether I'm confident or not. Try to carry yourself with authority when you approach him. Mind over matter if you can. I came home in absolute tears a few weeks ago feeling the exact same way you are and told my husband that he had to sell him... I'll just ruin the guy if he stays with me but with some time and no pressure things have turned around and are getting better. Ask a ton of questions here, research on the net everything you can and find a trainer!

    As far as those carrots go... I give Milo a small piece of carrot when I greet him, he's happy to see me now. When he does what I ask and does it well he gets a small piece of carrot...when I'm done and leaving for the day he gets love and rubs on his neck. When Milo knows I have a piece of carrot hidden in my hand he does what's asked with enthusiasm because he knows he'll get that treat. He isn't pushy about getting to it because he knows I won't hand it over at that point and may just give it to someone else. Some trainers don't like treats... see it as a bribe, but my thinking is... it's what works for him and we're both happy. Eventually I will wean him off being treat motivated and work on being strictly praise motivated... but not yet.
         
        09-15-2009, 12:42 AM
      #9
    Yearling
    Kahuna,

    Milo and I have very similar horses and they react in very similar ways. When I tried to get more aggressive (louder and more forceful) Tanner just got more aggressive back. I too have gone back to square one, earning trust. Tanner loves treats and I am learning to use them effectively. They are a tool as much as anything else I use is, and they don't get used without discretion. I have made more progress in a couple of weeks than I did in a whole month with him by careful use of trust and treats. All horses are different and will take different approaches. And I agree whole heartedly on getting yourself a good trainer. There are lots out there, see if you can tag along on a session before committing to one. You can go to a million seminars but you don't know how that particular trainer would approach your particular horse, so get your own trainer at least in the beginning to set you on the right path with your horse!
         
        09-15-2009, 12:54 AM
      #10
    Foal
    I think that is the same with Kahuna. When I worked him before he did everything I wanted with little acting out. I changed techniques though as a desperate attempt to get him to respect my space. I will start again at square one, I also have the girl who works the ranch I got him from (his original trainer who raised him) coming by tomorrow.
         

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