New stubborn horse has turned mean,,,,help - The Horse Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 12-23-2012, 08:31 AM Thread Starter
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Location: Alabama
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New stubborn horse has turned mean,,,,help

2 months ago I purchased a 7 year old app/spotted saddle racking horse from a friend that was used for lessons for kids....I had several months to watch him in action before bringing him home...did not ride much cause confidence was low,from a horse accident....everyone kept saying what a good horse he was but that he was stubborn...he has a great rack, trot and slow canter, what I was wanting.....more time when by and I kept noticing how stubborn he was BUT very desensitized and laid back...very.....I just though pt the stubbornish would be no big deal that him being so slow is really a huge plus...

He has been to my place now for 2.5 first he was a total basket case...also I have no other horses, just 2 miniature donkies so he has buddies....he started to calm down after a month and I started Canderson ground work with him first in round pen...well he really acted like he was going to jump out so I quit that for fear he would not only get hurt but head to the road....did lunging and even though he would kick out I would whack him and he would understand it but was very resentful towards it..I am up to lesson 12...when I train him he tolerates it to a point...I have to be extremely careful,with the pressure...he just can't handle it....ok...I am at a cross roads..I don't know if I should get,him some professional training or sell him...I have someone interested in buying him and someone that will do some training with him....I don't know what do to..I don't always want a fight on my hands because I need my confidence back...he has kicked one of my friends and he acts likes he hates me and will possibly kick me too...even though I can yield his hindquarters he still,acts like he is the boss...I know,he can tell I am cautious around him...I can't even pick out his back feet...he is intimadating me and he knows it....even when I brush him he kicks his back leg out like,he is swatting a fly but he is warning flies around.....any help would be GREATLY the other location he was pretty good, a total dead head...I keep,wondering if he just needs to be around other horses too, if he is not happy.....
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post #2 of 18 Old 12-23-2012, 09:06 AM
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This horse knows you're afraid of him, so is asserting his authority as the alpha. Either send him for professional training or sell him to someone who won't be afraid to put him in his place.

He doesn't 'hate' you, he just doesn't respect you and is treating you as a subordinate. He was fine at his previous home because he knew where he stood in the hierarchy, and respected those above him.

You don't sound as if you have the experience and abilities to make him behave. He needs firm leadership, not games.

You want the truth? You can't HANDLE the truth!
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post #3 of 18 Old 12-23-2012, 09:08 AM
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post #4 of 18 Old 12-23-2012, 09:19 AM
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Put your long line on him, take your whip and grooming tools and head out to a good lunging spot. Ask him to lunge one circle just at the walk. See if he will do it without the whip. Many horses resent it. Bring him in to your space and begin to groom him. As soon as he raises his hind leg. Grab your whip and send him out to lunge like you plan on killing him. Make him trot three circles and make him hustle. Cantering invites bucking and kicking out so keep it to the trot. Bring him back in and as tho nothing happened, begin to groom him again. You may have to repeat this a few times before he makes the connection that lifting his leg means work. This works for most unwanted behaviour. When you do anything with him, even just grooming, make him come to you or move him away. Envision that your feet are glued to the ground. This too asserts your dominance otherwise he thinks he's pushing you around which makes him dominant.
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post #5 of 18 Old 12-23-2012, 09:27 AM
Green Broke
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If you've got someone that wants to buy him-move him on-he doesn't sound like he's right for you. You stated you don't want to ride him, so let him go to someone that wants & knows how to work w/him. For yourself-to get back to riding-take lessons from a trainer sensitive to your confidence issues. Take it slow & good luck.
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post #6 of 18 Old 12-23-2012, 10:25 AM
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Hi Sewsmarty, Welcome to the Horse Forum. I wish it were under better circumstances.

You need training a lot worse than he does. Your next horse will get just like him you do not learn how to 'read' a horse, how to be the herd leader and how to assert yourself properly.

It is NOT that 'he cannot take pressure'. You just don't apply it correctly and you 'back off' at precisely the wrong time. He is the one training you to NOT do what he wants you to stop doing. He is a lot better at this game than you are. It is a 'pressure and release' thing, but if YOUR timing is not right, he learns to apply the pressure you do the backing off. This is what has happened and you need to learn how to do it right or your next horse will do the exact same thing.

Get some help; but you need someone to work with you and your horse together so you can learn to do it right. The nice horse you bought is still in there. You need to learn how to get him back to being the nice horse you bought.

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post #7 of 18 Old 12-23-2012, 12:50 PM
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To me it sounds like he has figured out that you either can't or won't make him do what you want and he is taking advantage of it. Get somebody to help you and teach you how to properly handle and train him. Good horses don't just all of a sudden become bad. It sounds to me like you don't quite have the timing of pressure and release right. It is very hard to learn timing and feel without someone there to let you know what you are doing wrong/right.
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post #8 of 18 Old 12-23-2012, 01:01 PM
Green Broke
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you need to establish dominance. you MIGHT find another horse that will be easy going enough for you, but most of them will get home and test you. You dont have to be mean or abusive and some horses respond to nothign harsher than a firm word. But whatever it takes you have take charge and be the boss. I think sending him to a trainer will be a waste of money for you. Bring him to my house and in a week Id have the nice slow kids lesson pony, youd take him home and within a couple weeks hed be right back to where he was. I think lessons on and with him would be great for you.
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post #9 of 18 Old 12-23-2012, 11:30 PM
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Well it sounds like he's definetly got your number! He knows he can intimitate you and he's going to continue doing it and get worse!
If my horses were being groomed and they lifted their leg telling me to get lost they would get a open hand smack on the rump and told NO!
I would definetly suggest to you to get help with him and take lessons on him with someone who knows horses, he's testing you and getting away with it.....

My horses are the joy in my life.....
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post #10 of 18 Old 12-24-2012, 12:14 AM Thread Starter
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He is pushing me..

I totally agree with all your kind comments...thank you....honestly as I had June to October to observe him I should have gone with my Gutenberg feeling and not bought him!

I saw how he was pushing everyone around when being ridden...they would say oh he is being stubborn, that is the way he is.....No, people have let him get away with the bad behavior and through the 7 years of his life he has gotten worse....with my previous two horse I was all over them, but this one is different, I think I will always feel cautious around him regardless of the training....I was told he could be fixed BUT it would take a longgg time to do as he has had 7 years of bad behavior...I simply can't ride a horse that won't listen...when people say a horse is "kid broke" I now feel like that means nothing to have no fear...put an 80 year old person on a horse and call it broke and that means something...the older we get the more fear we have because we don't heal as fast, we have jobs and income to depend on...last year when I was,bucked off and broke my wrist I was,out of work and no pay for 8 weeks...I am a self employed seamstress...I planned on getting another horse in a couple of years,but that time frame came sooner than I really need a horse that is going to "take care of me" sort of speak....

The previous owner of my horse sold his father because he was so stubborn they could not deal with him, so it is in my horse's genetics.....I know, I am answering my own question to what I am sell him!,,,

Also, I do know most,every horse will test you every day because their mission in life besides eating is to be left alone or be the top horse and with me not being the top horse he will be competing with me.....he is testing me to the point where when I whack him he kicks back even more....I have done the lunging with him and not only does he shake his head, he also cuts in really close to me...I had to try the lunging because,he was trying to jump out of the round pen....I had heard that the kind and amount of feed I am giving him could make him more wifey...any thought on that?....I give him 1 lb of strategy and 3/4 lbs of 12% sweet feed in the morning and at night......
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