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New stubborn horse has turned mean,,,,help

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  • Can horses handle 15f
  • Horse is very dominant and tests continually

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    12-24-2012, 01:44 AM
  #11
Yearling
I would definetly cut back on the amount of sweat feed or take it away completely. I feed our horses soaked beet pulp, apples, carrots and minerals....I do not give grain because it will make a horse hot, kind of like giving kids sugar LOL
     
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    12-24-2012, 01:48 AM
  #12
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saddlebag    
Put your long line on him, take your whip and grooming tools and head out to a good lunging spot. Ask him to lunge one circle just at the walk. See if he will do it without the whip. Many horses resent it. Bring him in to your space and begin to groom him. As soon as he raises his hind leg. Grab your whip and send him out to lunge like you plan on killing him. Make him trot three circles and make him hustle. Cantering invites bucking and kicking out so keep it to the trot. Bring him back in and as tho nothing happened, begin to groom him again. You may have to repeat this a few times before he makes the connection that lifting his leg means work. This works for most unwanted behaviour. When you do anything with him, even just grooming, make him come to you or move him away. Envision that your feet are glued to the ground. This too asserts your dominance otherwise he thinks he's pushing you around which makes him dominant.
This method actually works really well. This was how I taught both of my mares to stand without kicking when we clean the udders. My youngest mare would always offer to kick while doing this but It took me three times of sending her out to work and she quickly go the gist that kicking ment some fast paced hard laps.
Thunderspark likes this.
     
    12-24-2012, 02:18 AM
  #13
Foal
Feed making horse energetic...

I was told that the strategy pellet is what could make him hotter....should I not give any feed in the winter but hay?....

I have a 14 hand, 800 lb app/spotted saddle mix pony....
     
    12-24-2012, 02:50 AM
  #14
Super Moderator
I noticed that you mentioned that one reason you thought hemight make a good horse for you is that he seemed unruffled most of the time, by anything. Let's see , what words did you use . . . "very desensitized and laid back".

Sometimes such horses are really horses that just stuff their emotions down. They appear to be unemotional, but when there is enough pressure, they will really explode. Such horses are not very "honest" about what is going on inside, so it can be hard to know how to act with them. I really much prefer a horse that is very emotionally open and available, even if it means they are a wee bit more spooky.

This is just a comment, no advice for you. The others have said the best .
     
    12-24-2012, 12:48 PM
  #15
Super Moderator
This is not a feed problem. But, unless he is thin, he does not need much if any concentrate. A good free choice loose mineral will give him what he needs.

There are two common denominators on this horse and his sire both being 'stubborn'. They had the same genetics but more importantly, they had the same owners / handlers.

Some horses are bred and born a lot less willing. Very few are born 'stubborn'. Most stubborn horses have found there is a 'pay-off' for arguing with their handlers or riders. This comes from inconsistent handling, unclear boundaries, and 'pecking' and 'nagging' at them when they do something wrong.

Less than willing horses must have very clear boundaries, can never even think they have won for 1 second and should think they are going to die if they do something aggressive -- anything aggressive.

To nag and peck and not get the proper end result only emboldens them and they get worse and worse. Some horses are a lot less dominant by nature and a lot more forgiving. They cut people a lot of slack, but they can still get spoiled.

A couple of years ago I had a lady call and ask about a gentle, well-trained trail horse. She said she had a horse that was mean and she was afraid of him. I had her come and bring her horse with her. It turned out this was the 3rd horse she had bought over 5 or 6 years and all three were 'stubborn and mean'. All had been easy to ride when she bought them. She owned ALL of this horse's problems and probably the ones before this one. I told her I would not sell her a horse if she did not agree to come and ride the horse 5 or 6 times and let me teach her how to interact properly with the horse.

It would NOT take a long time to 'fix' this horse. Most horses like this (even ones that are a lot more aggressive than he is) only take one or two good sessions to get them back to being safe and riding & handling as good as they did before they went downhill. Now, that being said, they are not going to be any better trained that they were before they got spoiled. So, if he was not very well-trained (and he may not be if he had inept owners), that is only as nice as he will get without actual training.

Quote:
Also, I do know most,every horse will test you every day because their mission in life besides eating is to be left alone or be the top horse and with me not being the top horse he will be competing with me.....he is testing me to the point where when I whack him he kicks back even more....
This is the key to all of your problems and needs to be fixed BEFORE you handle this horse or any other horse. Everything you said here is just plain WRONG.

1) If you establish your place as a worthy leader, 90% of horses seldom 'test' you. That other 10% really REALLY want to be dominant and are not testing all of the time.

2) It is not their mission in life to test or argue with people. Their favorite 'safe' place in life is with a herd leader that they trust and feel safe with. It is their mission to have security and to know where they stand at all times. They should never try to be the dominant one in your 'herd of 2'.

3)
Quote:
.he is testing me to the point where when I whack him he kicks back even more..
No, NO, NO! This is not how you do it. If you are 'whacking' this horse and he is kicking back harder, you are only pecking on him enough to embolden him and are teaching him to be mean. This is how to make a horse dangerous to be around.

If you have to get after a horse more than twice for anything, you did not discipline the horse correctly.

If a horse is constantly 'testing' someone, then the horse has 'a people problem'. The person does not have 'a horse problem'.
bsms and Foxtail Ranch like this.
     
    12-25-2012, 12:09 AM
  #16
Foal
Great info..

Thanks so much for the information it all sounds spot on! Since I haven't had a horse in a year or so I have forgotten a lot plus my others were boarded...

I had a pretty good break through today...after doing lots of research on the internet along with all the comments here plus from my friends I have realized that I am feeding him WAY too much...and that is very likelymwhatnis making him "hot"......I have read that not all horses do well on strategy AND that I am giving him too much sweet feed as well.......I am cutting back to 1/2 lb sweet feed in the morning and evening And that is it....

My husband was covering the roof of his stall this morning with a tarp, the same one that fell off the roof that my horse was not afraid of BUT this morning when he was putting it back up he had a come apart...raced around in the pasture and blowing really hard....I was able to get him calmed down before he hurt himself......I could tell he was looking at my reassurance that it was ok....

Boarding was so much easier when I had my last 2 horses, when you have one on your own it is a whole different story....i feel like I have a first time baby and everyday is a learning experience.....with all this being said, my farrier who also trains horses has offered to work with him.....he said he can be trained but it may take some time......he will be picking him up soon and keeping him for a month or so, he lives very close...he told me that when he is done it will be my turn to come over, ride him and do the ground work....I will feel much better riding him when I can see that he knows how to listen?..he has only had kids kicking on his belly....

All my horse friends said I was feeding him way too much and should not have been mixing feeds either.....at his last owner he was getting the BARE minimum and I didn't think he was getting enough feed but he probably was, he really wasn't too skinny but that was summer and I thought with winter you give them more food but you really give them more hay...right?...he is not being ridden right now but will be soon....I also think that they were confusing him and his father with the word stubborn when they weren't taught to listen to begin with...
     
    12-25-2012, 12:47 AM
  #17
Foal
Forgot to mention..

I forgot this,
My horse does stand respectfully when tied, he is great for the farrier, when I was doing Clinton Anderson groundwork, had to stop for a couple weeks cause all the rain, he was picking it up really good especially yielding his hindquarters ( that was a must to get get to do since he was putting his hind end to me like..I a warning you) now I can yield his hindquarters to get that but away from me..he flexes his neck really good..gives to his pole....does the sending exercise somewhat ok....does all 4 of the backing exercises pretty good....

After I had to stop the groundwork temporarily and a bout two weeks prior is when he started acting hot and the bad lunging sessions were starting too....

I really think it has to be his feed...I should know for sure as this week goes along.....so he was doing good...somewhat disrespectful and to be expected because of his up bringing but not accepted or ok with me!,,, but the recent changes in him have been waaaay more extreme...that is the cause for my concern...wanted to clarify all this.....it is really hard to know just how much pressure to put on a horse.....he seems more concerned with the pressure than focusing on learning so I must be doing something wrong as well as his feed problems.....he was also not very spooky at all....
     
    12-25-2012, 01:50 AM
  #18
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by sewsmarty    
I forgot this,
My horse does stand respectfully when tied, he is great for the farrier, when I was doing Clinton Anderson groundwork, had to stop for a couple weeks cause all the rain, he was picking it up really good especially yielding his hindquarters ( that was a must to get get to do since he was putting his hind end to me like..I a warning you) now I can yield his hindquarters to get that but away from me..he flexes his neck really good..gives to his pole....does the sending exercise somewhat ok....does all 4 of the backing exercises pretty good....

After I had to stop the groundwork temporarily and a bout two weeks prior is when he started acting hot and the bad lunging sessions were starting too....

I really think it has to be his feed...I should know for sure as this week goes along.....so he was doing good...somewhat disrespectful and to be expected because of his up bringing but not accepted or ok with me!,,, but the recent changes in him have been waaaay more extreme...that is the cause for my concern...wanted to clarify all this.....it is really hard to know just how much pressure to put on a horse.....he seems more concerned with the pressure than focusing on learning so I must be doing something wrong as well as his feed problems.....he was also not very spooky at all....
Good for you! It's hard to admit to ourselves when we are doing something wrong and making the problem with the horse. Yes he probably is being over fed. Where we live it's now -26C=-15F with a windchill of -37C=-34F......our horses will eat more hay when it's this cold out. So long as they have water and hay they do fine, I do feed them supper once a day, it's beet pulp/minerals/apples/carrots but they have acess to hay at all times in the winter here, during the summer I put out hay for them and I can monitor to see how much they eat or if they are wasting, then I can either add more or cut back.

I also follow Clinton Anderson's methods, it made a huge difference in my appy gelding's attitude at being pushy (due to my own fault not knowing how to handle him when he was a youngster) and has made my mare no longer a skittish girl scared of her own shadow but a confident mare who looks to me as her leader....

Good luck and keep us updated on how it is going!
     

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