No Brakes! - Page 9 - The Horse Forum
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post #81 of 86 Old 08-21-2013, 10:22 PM
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Forigve me if you've already solved this.

The other day, or maybe today? Not sure which I wrote out a response for another horse on this forum who has no go and I think it will help you quite a bit.

Horse will not Whoa
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post #82 of 86 Old 08-21-2013, 10:35 PM Thread Starter
Green Broke
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Phoenix Arizona
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We have been working on alot of that though I will continue to do so. She is completely off alfalfa and it has helped alot. She Sometimes acts like a loon but only with the English saddle. She has lost some weight so I may need to buy a smaller gullet bar so it fits better. She is a Dead head in the western. She is stopping good in the arena but is barn sour. So I have been bringing her for walks off the property and im thinking of driving her off the property as well (with a long lead attached so if she had a moment I can spin her around and stop her). Im still using the tom thumb most of the time but Im slightly working her in the Snaffle. She reacts the same at the walk but as soon as we trot the head shoots in the air with the snaffle.
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post #83 of 86 Old 08-21-2013, 11:05 PM
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If it's only in the English then i'm thinking saddle fit may also be an issue or that your balance is lacking in an english saddle.

I'm also very against a tom thumb bit. I hate them really. It is THE worst bit in the world in terms of balance of it's construction. A horse that works even halfway decent in them deserve a gold medal. I've demonstrated on my own arm to friends why they suck so much. I stuck the bit in the crook of my elbow and applied maybe 2 ounces of pressure to the left shank to 'turn'. The link pinched so bad I had a purple bruise for a week. Not only that but when you pick up on one rein that shank wants to twist and push into the horse's face, thus putting pressure on the side of the mouth like a snaffle. All of that aside the straight shanks do nobody favors, it doesn't allow for any signal before the bit comes into play and it's single joined creating a nutcracker action.

There are many types of snaffles to try and that is the type of bit needed for basic work like this. Mullen mouths, single jointed, double jointed then of course all your different cheek pieces, all of which have a slightly different feel.

Curb bits aren't meant for more whoa, they are meant to refine cues on a horse that already has a solid foundation. I can't make you change bits though so if you insist on using a curb either of these is a much more kind option:
First choice:
I prefer a curb that is not jointed. However this one is hinged so your shanks will still move independantly. The port is just high enough for tongue relief and be very very mild. The short swept back shanks do not offer much leverage and give signal before the bit is engaged.

Western SS Low Port Futurity Bit -

My second choice for a curb bit:
This is double jointed, making it more mild and again has short swept back shanks giving signal beforehand. This bit can work much like an english pelham in that you can attach two sets of reins so you can primarily work off of the snaffle and only use the curb when needed.
Western AT Copper Dog Bone Ring Argentine Bit -

Even a barn sour horse will show a tendency to want to be in one area even in the arena ( the corner closest to their turnout or such). That is where you can begin to work on her issues. Like I said in the other thread, make that area an uncomfortable place to be and the rest of the arena easy.

On your walks, make sure she does have a couple feet of lead and you aren't leading by the clip.

Although, once things are good in the arena, the trails should be much better and if you have problems you can always bend to a stop, get her to relax and carry on.

I think I recommend this in the other thread as well, but at first you'll want to work her at the barn beforehand and afterward just to reinforce that coming back to the barn quicker is not a great idea.
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post #84 of 86 Old 08-22-2013, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
Green Broke
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Location: Phoenix Arizona
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Normally I would agree with you on the tom thumb. But when I used it on her it was a ha la lu ya moment. When I ask her to stop in a mild curb bit her head goes up in the air. Same thing with a O ring snaffle, and she just about flipped herself over with a Kimberwick. The moment I put pressure on this bit she put her head DOWN and was soft (I would get a descent stop with a finger!). Id love to ween her off of this bit. She has already started dropping her head and backing in the halter, but still throws it when I ask for brakes. So We will keep working on the not stopping on the front end with her head in the air issue. Once she has that down in the halter driving ill (hopefully before the summer ends) be able to ride her in the snaffle and have good brakes when its cool out.
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post #85 of 86 Old 09-15-2013, 12:10 PM
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The problem is not in the bitless bridle. It is in A-your horses training, or B-your riding. Like a few people said you ride with your body, not your hands. The bitless bridle does not give you less control, it tests your skills as a rider when you are not using an instrument to MAKE the horse listen.

I would completely chuck the idea of riding her anytime soon and start on some groundwork. Maybe it's just me, but if a horse can't listen in a side pull, it should not be ridden with a bit.

Start with ground work. Teach her to respect your commands and form a tough as nails bond. Then, once you two have it down to a science, start lightly riding her in a round pen or arena. If you all can't stop together, you should not be anywhere where the environment is not controlled.

I hope this helps xoxo
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post #86 of 86 Old 09-15-2013, 12:21 PM
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Forgive me for not reading all of the posts, but it is IMPERATIVE that your horse stops. "Corporal" (1982-2009) was headstrong and when riding outside of an arena you really had to pull for a halt with a snaffle, so I preferred a curb with him, still he would ALWAYS "whoa" on command. Your horse doesn't understand this, and it's like you are driving without no brake pads.
There are many ways to solve this but ground training is the best way. You could saddle and bridle and ride by hand (where you are on the ground and ride with the reins) and INSIST that he halt EVERY DAMX TIME YOUR ASK. Your horse has developed a terrible habit. He will, at some point, tune you out and bolt. This makes him very dangerous to ride outside of an enclosed area.
Take any and all suggestions on this thread and retrain him to LISTEN to your cues for a halt.
I was working with my QH, "Buster Brown", yesterday after months of inactivity, and he needs work on his halts. I will be loose lunging for a whoa every time and working him in hand this whole week so he translates the whoa to the snaffle before I ride him again on Saturday. With him, it's just being green, with YOUR horse it's a bad habit, sorry to say.
Unlike Arabian sensitive Corporal, Buster is sluggish and slow in my training arena, but believe me, if I took him out on the trails he'd be on pins and needles and tune me out, so I must train him to obedience. Here is a book I've been studying that might help you,too. of luck. Wasn't meaning to preach, I just am afraid for you. =D

A Jack and Three Queens, the latest book by James C. Dedman,
Hope that you fall in love with "Trot", like I did!
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