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post #11 of 30 Old 04-22-2009, 02:40 PM
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I had the same problem with my gelding, stud chain didn't work, lead rope smacking didn't work. So I got what I suppose you could call a 'western crop'.

It's a piece of leather, with two flaps of leather meeting at the end. Looking kind goofy, not sure what it's called. But it makes a CRACK sound if you hit it right. A thwack on the shoulder, noise and sting combined should give her the message to 'BACK THE F* UP!'. Just like the dominate horse will sometimes do to the irritating little one :)

I put on a really bad attitude when my geldings (especially the older one) start to act up. It's amazing the difference it's had in there temperment around me. My nine year old now acts like a submissive yearling when I enter the pasture. He minds my space and if I'm feeding my three-year his grain he will 'ask' permission to have some to (most of the time a no).

Sometimes, you just gotta get tough.

Wait! I'll fix it....
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post #12 of 30 Old 04-22-2009, 02:47 PM
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twogeldings- I think you're talking about a bat.

Like Spastic and mls said, negative sounds go a long way. I've never had issues with using my body (and voice) and a lead rope to get a horse moving away from me darn fast. I agree with mls in that you should not be smacking in the face- aim for the chest and bellly if you are going to smack. When I get real ticked I verbalize the message "Back the eff up" (more graphically though) to them if they are being snots about it.
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post #13 of 30 Old 04-22-2009, 05:49 PM
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mls- that is simply YOUR opinion on the matter. I happen to believe Parelli WILL work for any horse because it's based on HORSE PSYCHOLOGY. It doesn't work for every person though, for certain reasons.
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post #14 of 30 Old 04-22-2009, 07:34 PM
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I think that is a lot of peoples opinion on the matter, not just mls.
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post #15 of 30 Old 04-22-2009, 07:44 PM
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She's the only one who said I replied to her alone.
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post #16 of 30 Old 04-22-2009, 08:25 PM
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Everyone has made a great point.... her being young she does have a short attention span, but that doesn't mean she should be getting away with anything... When i first got my horse River, I had never had a non-broke horse... when I got on her and she was being jumpy and bucky it freaked me out... I wanted to cry.. my grandpa told me to buck up and be aggressive... show her that I am confident and I am the boss... I didn't hit her or smack her.. just got a little rough to let her know.. hey I am not scared anymore and you WILL do what I want.... I understand the fact that she is your baby... but the next time you try to pull her head up or whatever you are trying right now.. be confident... talk in a loud, but not yelling voice... get her attention, and don't get frustrated... another thing you can try.. is holding the lead rope closer to you... like give her about a foot... if she tries to put her head down yank her head around and turn her in a circle...

*As Long As We Are Together, We Are One And We Are Safe*
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post #17 of 30 Old 04-22-2009, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Appy Luvr View Post
I've had my 2yr old for a few months now and she is a complete baby, you can do anything to her and she doesn't care. The only problem is she doesn't respect me and my space. She will push, shove, walk over me, whatever it takes to get her way. She also does the same thing to my yearling that she stays with. What can I do to make her respect me more? As sweet as she is, she can be dangerous when she wants because she doesn't think twice about running me over! She is a BIG girl and I'm only 110 lbs so she easily gets her way. Her previous owners did Parelli with her so I don't know if that's part of it or not, all I know is I need help!!
Keep it simple.

Horse understands pressure and release of pressure.

When horse does "X" if that results in a release of pressure, horse will do "X"

When horse does "X" and that results in pressure, horse stops doing"X"
Horses don't want to feel pressure.

One horse pins his ears at another. That's pressure. If that other horse doesn't move, then the first horse will raise the pressure to a kick or a bite and if that second horse still doesn't move, that first horse will get more adament about it until the second horse moves. Soon as the second horse moves, the first horse gives that horse a release of pressure.

Second horse then learns the pattern and chooses to move before the pressure is raised.

So, if your horse steps in toward you and you step back, you are training her to move into you to get a release of pressure.

Do this enough times and the horse learns that if she moves faster or more assertively into you, you will eventually move and therefore give her a release of pressure.

You've trained your horse to step in toward you. To dominate you, basically.

Nevermind what the horse was trained in before. You're training her now to be dominant and you want to change that, right?

Change the rules then.

Every single time she steps in toward you, even one step, immediately "kiss" (light pressure) and tap the air between you and her with a whip or whatever you like to use (more pressure) with rhythm...that means, don't just wave it all over the place. Look at her chest (pick a real spot on her body) and tell her chest to back up five steps. Soon as it does, leave her alone. Don't chase her with the whip, simply tell her to back up and when she does, put the release of pressure there.

Horses learn like people do. Through condition response. That is, repetition of the same thing. So, if she repeatedly gets use a PATTERN and RHYTHM of pressure (no single whack).....when she steps in toward you....and soon as she steps back away from you she gets the sure not to chase her, but soon as she backs you leave her alone.....

Pressure and release of pressure. Where you put it is what she responds to. That's it.

Don't take things personal. No emotions. No anger. Nothing like that. Anger can cause her to get defensive and come in even more, knowing that has worked in the past to get a release of pressure.

Your focus is very important. That's why it will help you to pick a spot on her body to move that spot. That spot moves, it'll take the rest of the horse with it.

Also, if you put emotions into it and get angry and all that, you can make it worse, because your horse can go into defensive mode and she may then "call your bluff" if you back up or back off. This is why I choose not to tell people to get angry or use punishment. I've found that it's better to keep it more "it's just business" and just focus and use pressure and release in a pattern with then the horse can learn that and respond accordingly.

Then it's just a matter of .... how consistent are make the lesson stick and stay sticking for good. It won't take long if you keep in mind the pattern and use of pressure....1..2..3..4... each number represents an "upping" of pressure. The moment the horse responds, you put the release there.

Do the work now and only need maintenance later and the horse learns and keeps this lesson in mind for good.
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post #18 of 30 Old 04-22-2009, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Spirithorse View Post
mls- that is simply YOUR opinion on the matter. I happen to believe Parelli WILL work for any horse because it's based on HORSE PSYCHOLOGY. It doesn't work for every person though, for certain reasons.
Want to talk about horse psychology? I think it's a fairly basic concept that all horses are different. By the fact of all horses being different then they all have different needs and different ways of understanding. No one method will EVER work 100% of the time for 100% of horses. Think of it this way- would you ever assume that the same bit will work for every horse? I hope not. So why would you assume that one training method will work for every horse. Just my opinion of course.
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post #19 of 30 Old 04-23-2009, 02:08 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for all of the responces guys, I was gone all day so didn't get a chance to read or post until now.
Yes I do use a rope halter with her. I've never used a chain and really would prefer not too...
I said she is a baby meaning she is very gentle, etc as far as handling goes. I don't treat her like a baby, my animals always know to respect me and I've never had an issue before getting this girl. I always make her do what I want and try not to let her get away with her pushyness but she will pretty much have a temper tantrum when she wants her way and can't have it. Example: I feed them their grain in the morning and I won't let her have it if she is shoving at me, I make her wait until I carry it over to were she eats at. Well one day she decided she wanted it NOW so she swung around and kicked both feet straight at me and luckily she only hit the bucket I was holding because it instantly broke into a million pieces.... Like I said before, she can be dangerous when she wants as she could have easily put me in the hospital.
She seems to treat me like just another horse instead of the boss.
I haven't done a whole lot of ground work with her yet since we've been under several feet of snow. My round corral should be up soon though, any suggestions on things I can do with her in there to work on who's in charge?

To the people argueing about Parelli: I didn't mention it to start a fight, I simply stated that's how she was tamed down and trained up until I got her to give people anunderstanding of how she has been taught. Please start your own thread if you wish to argue, as this thread is about how to help me not about who's training method is better, thank you
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post #20 of 30 Old 04-23-2009, 06:09 PM
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onetoomany, I'll clarify why Parelli would work for all horses, and then be done with it. Parelli doesn't treat every horse the same. Horses are either confident/dominant or unconfident/fearful....introverted or extroverted.....and each horse, who is their own special combination, has certain strategies that work for that individual horse. Parelli has identified these certain things which makes reading horses and knowing for sure how to go about training them much easier and the progress you make, if done right, goes much faster.
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