Is this normal? - Page 2
 
 

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Is this normal?

This is a discussion on Is this normal? within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        02-14-2014, 02:28 AM
      #11
    Weanling
    I NEVER use the running martingale to get the horse to give to pressure, infact I have yet to use it for that purpose because I have not had a horse try to test me and throw it's head that high. I train and show western pleasure and have trained with world known trainers. I'm not saying to use the running martingale to pull the horses head down with it...I'm saying, use it JUST IN CASE the horse has a moment while in the early parts of training, you can have a little more control if you were ever in a dangerous situation. Don't wanna start an argument for those of you being not so nice. I'm stating my professional opinion and everyone can think and do as they please. Again...this horse is not in a natural state and yes he is being pulled back too much And the rider is in poor posture but just because the horse is like this doesn't mean he automatically wants to throw a hissy fit. For those of you sayif this, watch a true pleasure horse lope sometime then come back with some feedback from that. Looks like a piece of cake but the movement is so unnatural to the horse some people are very against it. If the training is done right (I do not believe in draw reins) and the horse learns to respect your hand and leg movements, then it is made easier for the horse to do it's job and be more comfortable
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        02-14-2014, 08:44 AM
      #12
    Weanling
    It's not normal nor good for the horse.

    A nice, low headset means the nose should point forward.

    In this case the poor saint of a horse is forced to point hid nose at his chest. Not right.

    Oh and arabians are more than able to keep their head low in a correct position without hanging them to the bit.
    beverleyy likes this.
         
        02-14-2014, 11:01 AM
      #13
    Trained
    1 - My impression was that the rider is a new rider taking a lesson. It did not look like a video of someone training a horse to me. I'm not a fan of 'toes front', but it looked like his toes were 90 deg out a number of times.

    2 - "Everyone using a snaffle should be using a running martingale with their snaffles. It really isn't safe without one. This horses isn't having its head pulled down, but is giving to the pressure of the hands and legs of the rider, so really the horse is choosing to do this...Don't wanna start an argument for those of you being not so nice. I'm stating my professional opinion and everyone can think and do as they please."

    I haven't used a training fork or running martingale, and I'm not a pro. I'm not trying to be nasty...but if I can ride Mia in a snaffle without being in danger, then I doubt many riders need a TF/RM/whatever it is to safely ride in a snaffle. That is my non-pro opinion.

    3 - Is it normal? Not by anyone I want to train my horses. Others can do as they wish, since my goals and experience may differ from theirs. But if I saw a trainer using one regularly, I'd probably look for a different trainer.
    madyasmkey likes this.
         
        02-14-2014, 11:45 AM
      #14
    Weanling
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kay56649    
    The horse's head really isn't "tied down They are using a running martingale and it doesn't really pull their head down, just keeps it from coming up. Everyone using a snaffle should be using a running martingale with their snaffles. It really isn't safe without one. This horses isn't having its head pulled down, but is giving to the pressure of the hands and legs of the rider, so really the horse is choosing to do this. Not the most natural looking for this horse as it kind of looks like an arab, but nothing that looks "not normal".
    Though I think it looks like a running martingale, I wouldn't say that horse is responding to the riders hands, more to the martingale because that martingale is too tight and if he does lift his head the martingale will pull down again. It's over flexing too, not in a decent outline and behind the vertical.
         
        02-14-2014, 12:55 PM
      #15
    Showing
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kay56649    
    . Everyone using a snaffle should be using a running martingale with their snaffles. It really isn't safe without one. .
    How did I miss this statement?! No no no, a thousand times no.
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        02-14-2014, 01:51 PM
      #16
    Teen Forum Moderator
    You really don't realize just how limiting equipment like martingales, tie downs, training forks, etc are until you've ridden a good horse without one and felt what it REALLY feels like for the animal to be on the bit and working from behind.

    Until last week I'd never, ever ridden a horse with a tiedown or any other type of restrictive device on their face. I've ridden some poorly trained animals and some beautifully trained ones. I know the difference. I'm mostly out of horses at the moment due to finances, but this past Sunday a friend of mine offered for me to ride her TB mare in a clinic since the mare was needing experience but my friend had gotten hurt. I took her, and she was a lovely mare but obviously clueless about correct movement despite being supposedly "broke broke." I had to ride the mare in her usual gear since she wasn't mine- a snaffle, SHORT barrel reins, and a tie down that didn't allow her to put her head much higher than her wither. I'm normally soft handed but in that gear I had a HARD time giving her proper release at the correct time. At least twice I popped her in the mouth when she was trying to balance herself, hit the end of the tie down, and jerked her head. I ended up loosening the tie down a LOT and just fixing it before she went home, but still she braced and bobbed. She was a nice mare, but utterly confused. I had her working off my seat and leg well near the end of the day, but she was not able to really pick herself and round herself out nearly as well as if she'd just been wearing her snaffle.

    I know tiedowns and forks are different but the principal is the same. All of those types of equipment, IMO, make both the hands and mouth HARDER, not softer, and they really take away from the smoothness of transition in communication.
         
        02-14-2014, 03:04 PM
      #17
    Super Moderator
    Great description of how a horse can feel with a tie down on.!
         
        02-14-2014, 03:09 PM
      #18
    Super Moderator
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by madyasmkey    
    Though I think it looks like a running martingale, I wouldn't say that horse is responding to the riders hands, more to the martingale because that martingale is too tight and if he does lift his head the martingale will pull down again. It's over flexing too, not in a decent outline and behind the vertical.

    Madyasmey,

    It is what is called 'training fork" here in America. You can see becuase there are two totally serperate lines going all the way down to the girth, and there is no strap ringing the neck/shoulder area, as in a true running, standing or German martingale.


    And to a different member, to say a snaffle is dangerous without a martingale is a remarkable thing to say. NEver, ever, ever have I heard anyone say that. A snaffle is designed for direct line contact, and with a martingale, you lose this advantage. A martingale does not improve upon a snaffle, nor make it safer.
    madyasmkey likes this.
         
        02-14-2014, 03:18 PM
      #19
    Weanling
    There are so many problems in what training SHOULD create (for balance and bearing) and why to use a piece of equipment.

    Ideally in all disciplines the horse should be up/open/free to use its entire body properly. Unfortunately western pleasure has become low neck/flat gaits= winning. So people will create what wins, no matter is best for the horse or what is according the directives for training.

    Running martingales are NOT to be used for longitudinal flexion, but for limiting a horse going above the bit/bolting (a guard against it) or in some cases for lateral flexibility. That means the rings should be the height of the point of the hip when held vertically..this pulls downward, creates pain on the bars and serves one purpose, a false posture (through pain). Some horses will 'give in', and some will resist/stop/rear/do what it takes to escape the effects of such problematic riding.
         
        02-14-2014, 04:20 PM
      #20
    Weanling
    Oh yeah. Didn't notice that there was no attachment to the neck.
         

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