Nose chain. - The Horse Forum

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post #1 of 30 Old 07-30-2011, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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Nose chain.

Ok, so I recently bought a nose chain because I heard it help keep them in line and you could yank on it if they were being naughty or disrespectful. I'll lunge them until they stop to look at me to listen, and then we'll work on completely stopping when I say "whoa" and backing up.
But when I take the chain off they don't listen to the commands like they did when the chain was on.
We haven't been working on this for very long, but I don't know why they don't listen when the chain is off...
Any ideas on what to do?
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post #2 of 30 Old 07-30-2011, 11:59 AM
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I had to use a stud chain with my old gelding because he absolutely would not listen to a regular lunge line clipped to his halter. The stud chain gives you more leverage if they aren't listening, kind of like the difference between walking your dog with a choke chain verses a flat collar. The problem with a stud chain is that it kind of becomes a crutch for you. The horse knows when the stud chain isn't on and knows that you can't gain as much leverage if it's not on, so they stop listening.

When I had this problem with my gelding, the solution I figured out was quite simple. I would always give him three chances to do something I asked. The first time, I asked nicely. The second time, I asked a little more insistently. The third time, I MADE him do what I asked. How does this translate into using the stud chain with a lunge line? Simple. Once you get your basic commands established, add a little wiggle with the lunge line when you ask. If you have to ask a second time, make that wiggle a little harder or maybe even tug slightly on the line. If you have to ask a third time, start with the wiggle, then MAKE the horse do what you asked. Pretty soon, they'll connect the wiggle with being asked nicely and will usually respond immediately because they don't want to have to be made to do it. Yes, you'll still need to put the stud chain on probably, but you won't have to use it.

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post #3 of 30 Old 07-30-2011, 12:16 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DraftyAiresMum View Post
I had to use a stud chain with my old gelding because he absolutely would not listen to a regular lunge line clipped to his halter. The stud chain gives you more leverage if they aren't listening, kind of like the difference between walking your dog with a choke chain verses a flat collar. The problem with a stud chain is that it kind of becomes a crutch for you. The horse knows when the stud chain isn't on and knows that you can't gain as much leverage if it's not on, so they stop listening.

When I had this problem with my gelding, the solution I figured out was quite simple. I would always give him three chances to do something I asked. The first time, I asked nicely. The second time, I asked a little more insistently. The third time, I MADE him do what I asked. How does this translate into using the stud chain with a lunge line? Simple. Once you get your basic commands established, add a little wiggle with the lunge line when you ask. If you have to ask a second time, make that wiggle a little harder or maybe even tug slightly on the line. If you have to ask a third time, start with the wiggle, then MAKE the horse do what you asked. Pretty soon, they'll connect the wiggle with being asked nicely and will usually respond immediately because they don't want to have to be made to do it. Yes, you'll still need to put the stud chain on probably, but you won't have to use it.
Alright :)
I'll try that! Thank you!
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post #4 of 30 Old 07-30-2011, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleffapuff View Post
Alright :)
I'll try that! Thank you!
You're welcome.

Just make sure that there is a distinct difference between your three levels (ask, ask harder and make), or else it will confuse and frustrate your horse.

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post #5 of 30 Old 07-30-2011, 05:37 PM
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Cleffapuff, I hope you'll give your question a bit more thought. Ask yourself what you would do if you were the horse. How do you respond to force?
What constitutes force is individual. You don't really get to decide what your horse thinks is force and what isn't. That's his deal. But a mechanical means to an end rarely results in the desired response. Just ask yourself. And if someone used an item of force to obtain a result and then didn't use the item, wouldn't you do what you wanted if you could? Horses aren't stupid. They completely cognizant of these facts. As Abe Lincoln said, " Force is all conquering, but its victories are short-lived. –Abe Lincoln
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post #6 of 30 Old 07-30-2011, 05:50 PM
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I often work my horse at liberty and what I've discovered is he's become light as a feather when on halter. When I lunge him at liberrty I'll ask for a whoa (verbal). If he keeps going, that's ok cause it's him doing the work, not me. I'll encourage him onward then again ask for a whoa. I just keep this up until he'd like to stop and face me. I use this to reinforce whoa. We'll do something else then come back to this and repeat. Usually the whoa is better the second session. And so on. We can't assume they understand what we want. More force means less training, ie make a horse do something and when the chips are down he will fail you.
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post #7 of 30 Old 07-30-2011, 07:36 PM
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Well put, Saddlebag! A chain is not the answer! If you are lunging and your horse does not want to stop, then let him keep going forward, but make it your idea. Ask him to move on by clucking to show that you are the one saying keep moving. Then ask for a stop again, if he does want to stop, ask him to move on with a little more energy. The idea that you are trying to get across to your horse is that if you don't listen to me, you are going to have to work harder. When you ask for the stop use the same cues every time, like a soothing voice and a relaxed body. When he stops let him rest to show that he did the right thing.

Do you know how to get him to change directions while on the line? Changing directions frequently keeps his attention on you.

More force is never the answer. Work on the training, because Saddlebag is so right, you need your horse to respect you, not fear pain, in order to have a safe, reliable horse.

You don't have to be crazy to work in a barn, they'll train you!
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post #8 of 30 Old 07-30-2011, 08:56 PM
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I would never , never lunge in a stud chain. It is too hard to make any kind of correction without it being overly harsh and making it really hard to make any sort of communication of a smaller degree. Also, if you drop the line, and the horse steps on it, or becomes entangled , you could have him accidently break his own nose.

Let him work out some of his yayas. Use the change of direction. If you must pull hard on the line, pull upward, not downward and use a few sharp snaps to get his attention and pull his nose around, but you can't do this iwth a chain on. Well, I wouldn't.
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post #9 of 30 Old 07-31-2011, 02:09 AM
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alee, what's the thinking behind unsuccessfully asking your horse to stop, then confirming that you didn't actually mean "stop" by telling the horse to go more forward?
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post #10 of 30 Old 07-31-2011, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher View Post
alee, what's the thinking behind unsuccessfully asking your horse to stop, then confirming that you didn't actually mean "stop" by telling the horse to go more forward?
SHHHHHHH...............keep it down........they're horse whispering
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