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not safe

This is a discussion on not safe within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

     
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        04-25-2011, 01:51 AM
      #21
    Super Moderator
    Gidget;

    You can get a decent curb bit for not that much money. I don't ride in one, but my friend does. The junior cowhorse bit might be a good enough choice. YOu would get more brakes.
    I think many if not most horse would spook and maybe bolt if cows come running upt to them. Mac would be GONE! But for me, I want to have lateral control, so it he did start to bolt, my plan would be to pullon him around with one rein and ask him to face the thing that he is trying to flee. If he got to a gallop, I would not try to one rein stop him when he was at that speed, just as you said, too likely to cause a fall.

    If you do ride G in a curb , watch and observe to see if this cause her to become overly reactive to the rein/bit and get back into throwing her head in the air or running around very stiff and hollowed out and giraffing.
    Using a curb means you have to be that much more careful with the timing and use of the bit. But they are not devilspawn. Might be a good thing. Who knows.
         
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        04-25-2011, 03:27 AM
      #22
    Green Broke
    What about this one?
    Butterfly Smooth Snaffle Gag Bit: Saddles Tack Horse Supplies - ChickSaddlery.com
         
        04-25-2011, 03:30 AM
      #23
    Trained
    I think that it is simply a training issue, her putting dominance over you. Don't change the bit, change her way of thinking. By putting in a severer bit, you are making her mouth harder.
         
        04-25-2011, 04:54 AM
      #24
    Weanling
    Imo problems like this are an excellent reason to stay in the same bit or move to a milder one. If a horse has problems in a snaffle I wouldn't trust it in a curb, even if it does improve when you put the curb in, or even if it was trained in a curb.
         
        04-25-2011, 08:04 AM
      #25
    Foal
    I think I have to agree with Gidget and a few of the others,put her in a shank, and see how she's does.. I've had a few horses who just HATED a snaffle,put them in a shank and they were fine! One who was even very lazy, wouldnt pick up his head and just kinda drug you along.. put him in a short shank, and presto, he'd lift his head/shoulders, and was all around a much better horse.
         
        04-25-2011, 08:05 AM
      #26
    Yearling
    I think the Butterfly Smooth Snaffle Gag Bit would be a good choice. As you have found there are many opinions on biting up a horse. A true snaffle bit is great for schooling in the arena, some horses do great with a snaffle on trail riding, but not all horses are one and the same. It all boils down to the individual horse what bit they like and respond well with it.
         
        04-25-2011, 01:39 PM
      #27
    Green Broke
    I think I have made my mind up. I am going to go with the butterfly bit. There is some leverage but the bit is broken so I can have come lateral movement like a snaffle. It's going a step up and the bit isn't expensive so if it doesn't work I will go back to the snaffle. Honestly IMO I think I would feel a wee bit more comfortable with a shanked bit on a trail incase something happened. I will try it out and let you all know.
         
        04-25-2011, 02:01 PM
      #28
    Super Moderator
    This is kinda late, and I'm glad you feel like you've figured out some solutions, but I had another thought about the cows that might be helpful...
    Lacey used to be afraid of most other animals (not cows, she's always wanted to chase cows) and what's helped her is if I ask her to stop and watch the animals before she's actually scared, so she can think through the situation. Now she's actually started doing it on her own. There are lots of loose dogs on the trails we ride and she's learned to stop for the ones that are really scary and let them sniff her before we move on, but for dogs she doesn't find threatening, she'll just keep going. I generally let her choose whether to stop or not but sometimes I have her stop by a dog I'm not comfortable with but she is, just in case. I'm not sure how much choice I'd give Gidget because she seems like she's more highly opinionated than Lacey but it's something to try. Another thing I do with Lacey is we regularly "herd" the llamas she lives with. That's helped her figure out that most animals are more scared of her than she is of them. Now, when she sees an animal that really scares her, she generally wants to chase it since she seems to have decided that's pretty fun to watch them run away. Hahaha
    It's just a thought. :)
         
        04-25-2011, 03:38 PM
      #29
    Super Moderator
    The butterfly gag bit is not a leverage bit unless you add a curb chain to the upper ring and they are made in such a way that adding a curb chain usually will pinch the corner of the horse's mouth.

    A gag bit works by putting pressure behind the horse's ears. It gives lateral control at the expense of a higher head carriage and no way to comfortably get any collection. Horses do not drop their heads or bring their chin in with a gag bit -- they root into it quite frequently but give laterally. That is why barrel racers use them and that is why I use them for horses that over-bend and get behind the bit. It helps get their chin off of their chests. I do not believe that is what you need.

    I would think that a Jr Cowhorse bit would work much better if your horse is not having a problem with tongue pressure.

    If you horse needs relief from tongue pressure, you are much better off with a medium port (or higher) with swivel shanks or a Mylar bit that is designed to relieve tongue pressure.

    Many people erroneously believe that a higher port is equal to a more harsh bit. It is not. The length and angle of the shank is the main determining factor for severity along with the ratio of the distance from the mouthpiece to the top ring and the distance from the mouthpiece to the bottom ring where the reins attach. Without that leverage AND a curb chain or strap, you do not have a true curb bit.
         
        04-25-2011, 05:44 PM
      #30
    Weanling
    Ok I may be opiening a can of worms her but it seams a lot of people think that snafle bits are less pain full than curb bits. A curg bit dose not jab a horse in the ruff of the mouth like a curb bit dose. So changing to a curb is not changing to a stronger bit it is a bit that works diffrently. Or at least that is the way I see it.
         

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