Old-School Horse Training: The Snaffle Horse - Page 4
 
 

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Old-School Horse Training: The Snaffle Horse

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  • Chilla seeney
  • Cowboys horse riding training school

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    01-23-2013, 01:55 AM
  #31
Trained
I had never heard of that! As far as I was aware the rule was there to stop the ammies putting a curb on their horses then riding around with contact like they still had a snaffle on. I can see how it would be much harder to not ruin your horses mouth doing something so fast and adrenalin fuelled in a leverage bit.

I might look into getting a Bosal then. I already ride her bitless a lot of the time on the trail, and on a super loose rein in her snaffle, so as to save her mouth a bit. I have always wanted to try a bosal and I think she is one who would go well in one.

And yes, it is super fun! Difficult, and needs a bit of luck, but really fun.

Quote:
On the working cow portion is there a pattern you have to do, or required moves?
It's all the one event, I just couldn't find a vid that showed both parts well. There is the 'camp' part, which is when you cut your cow from the mob and work it in front of the gate, then you call to open the gate, and then you have the 'draft' portion. In that bit you have to take the cow in a pattern kind of like a barrel pattern. Around one peg, then another in a figure eight, then around the back and through the 'gate' (Two pegs). You get disqualified if you lose your pattern more than once.
     
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    01-23-2013, 08:33 AM
  #32
Yearling
I think it was on Land Line on the ABC or something, they did a thing on Chilla Seeney, I think it's online somewhere.
     
    01-23-2013, 06:08 PM
  #33
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by wild_spot    
I find this all really interesting. I campdraft, which I suppose is similar to the cow section of working cowhorse.

Campdrafting is done, on the whole, in snaffle bits. From the greenies right up to the open horses. I honestly can't even imagine doing a draft in a curb bit with a draped rein.

I wonder if the training of our draft horses is not as good as it could be because of the lack of progression in bitting. Or wether the use of a spade bit wouldn't be compatable with drafting.

I have always wanted to train a horse to a curb bit and/or a bosal, but I am always worried it will compromise their performance in a snaffle, which is what we have to use for competition.
Here is what I found that would be similar to what you do in campdrafting. These horses are all ridden with curb style bits.

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    01-23-2013, 06:30 PM
  #34
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnrewPL    
I think it was on Land Line on the ABC or something, they did a thing on Chilla Seeney, I think it's online somewhere.
Here ya go, an article on Chilla Seeny. Interesting man! Guess he passed away in 2009?

Landline - 21/03/2004: Chilla Seeney: a living legend . Australian Broadcasting Corp
     
    01-23-2013, 07:34 PM
  #35
Yearling
Ok, didn't know he had died.
     
    01-23-2013, 09:43 PM
  #36
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaG    
The campdrafting thing is very interesting. And the drama behind the rules is even more interesting! I always wonder about the rules around bits in open classes.Why not just let people compete in whatever they want, provided it's not cruel and is being used properly? I can see having snaffle classes for young horses.

But I'm really not one for a million rules.

Thanks Wanstrom, I always like to hear what people look for. I have a QH/Percheron gelding - I think I've had him for about 16 years now - and he's sure sturdy and still sound. Still can be pretty lively, too! I don't see the draft crosses around here much anymore since the PMU barns closed down.
If you ever get into showing in some of the ranch horse/stock horse associations, they will let you show in just about anything. I know for sure the American Stock Horse Assoc. Allows snaffles and hackamores for any age horse. Just no prong bits, mouth pieces too thick or thin and no shanks over 8.5". Whereas showing in the National Reined Cow Horse Assoc. Hackamores and snaffles for 5yrs and under, the two rein horse can only be shown for one year then required to move to the Bridle class.

I also have wanted to try Campdrafting. I made really good friends with an Aussie that was over here in the states on a work visa. She was the one who first told me about it, sounds like too much fun. Hopefully one these days I will make it down there!
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    01-24-2013, 12:56 AM
  #37
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnrewPL    
Ok, didn't know he had died.
Yes, sad to say. :( And you were right about him dusting the commpetition wwith hackamose horses! Guess after they changed the rules on him, he put a headstall with a snaffle biy on under the bosal and rode that way! Lol Sounds like my kind of guy! ;)

There's a nice article titled on him, Chilla - A Larrakin and a Legend

"On Saturday 3rd January 2009, the body of Australia's legendary horseman, Chilla Seeney, was carried by horse-drawn hearse to his family's grave site in the little town of Monto, Queensland. Chilla (Charles Alfred) Seeney was laid to rest after losing his long battle with Parkinson's disease and passing away on Christmas day. He was 80 years of age. Chilla was "seen off" by more than 300 of his friends and relatives, a testament to the kind of mateship and respect this charismatic character commanded throughout his colourful, and often controversial, life.

Chilla Seeney was a well-recognised "mover and shaker" in the Australian performance horse industry during its heyday - first throughout the early years of rodeo and roughriding, then in campdrafting, and later with the formative years of the cutting horse industry. He was a man of action, driven by what he called "the three Ds" - desire, devotion and discipline, and coupled with this, a fearless competitive spirit. For Chilla winning was everything and with that fierce determination he excelled at every sporting event he set his mind to."

You can read the rest of the atricle here:
Ponderosa Quarter Horses - Chilla - A Larrakin and a Legend
     
    01-24-2013, 11:17 PM
  #38
Weanling
Quote:
Originally Posted by COWCHICK77    
If you ever get into showing in some of the ranch horse/stock horse associations, they will let you show in just about anything. I know for sure the American Stock Horse Assoc. Allows snaffles and hackamores for any age horse. Just no prong bits, mouth pieces too thick or thin and no shanks over 8.5". Whereas showing in the National Reined Cow Horse Assoc. Hackamores and snaffles for 5yrs and under, the two rein horse can only be shown for one year then required to move to the Bridle class.
That makes way more sense to me. I do compete in cattle sorting and ranch rodeo (though I'm not very competitive), and I'm thinking of doing cowboy mounted shooting next year (all sports where no one gives a s*&^ what kind of bit you have or how you hold your reins)

Okay, I have a snaffle horse training questions. I'm trying to teach my young mare to shift her weight back so she can turn more quickly. I've been doing lots of backing up, which seems to be helping.

So before I get her to turn, I stop her, and ask her to shift her weight back a little, which she does. Then I ask her to move her shoulder with my leg, and direct rein her (so if we're going right, I use my left leg and right rein).

Her sire is a reiner, and so she does turn fast, but I'd like her to shift even more weight back. Any suggestions?
     
    01-24-2013, 11:23 PM
  #39
Yearling
Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaG    
That makes way more sense to me. I do compete in cattle sorting and ranch rodeo (though I'm not very competitive), and I'm thinking of doing cowboy mounted shooting next year (all sports where no one gives a s*&^ what kind of bit you have or how you hold your reins)

Okay, I have a snaffle horse training questions. I'm trying to teach my young mare to shift her weight back so she can turn more quickly. I've been doing lots of backing up, which seems to be helping.

So before I get her to turn, I stop her, and ask her to shift her weight back a little, which she does. Then I ask her to move her shoulder with my leg, and direct rein her (so if we're going right, I use my left leg and right rein).

Her sire is a reiner, and so she does turn fast, but I'd like her to shift even more weight back. Any suggestions?
Work her on the fence, that will get her butt underneath her and he weight headed in the right direction.
LisaG likes this.
     
    01-25-2013, 01:03 AM
  #40
Trained
Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaG    
That makes way more sense to me. I do compete in cattle sorting and ranch rodeo (though I'm not very competitive), and I'm thinking of doing cowboy mounted shooting next year (all sports where no one gives a s*&^ what kind of bit you have or how you hold your reins)

Okay, I have a snaffle horse training questions. I'm trying to teach my young mare to shift her weight back so she can turn more quickly. I've been doing lots of backing up, which seems to be helping.

So before I get her to turn, I stop her, and ask her to shift her weight back a little, which she does. Then I ask her to move her shoulder with my leg, and direct rein her (so if we're going right, I use my left leg and right rein).

Her sire is a reiner, and so she does turn fast, but I'd like her to shift even more weight back. Any suggestions?
Hope you don't mind if I make some suggestions too...

I like to teach a horse to "back around" and for a couple of reasons, 1) it is great for teaching a horse to set himself up for a roll back, 2) it makes for teaching good lope offs 3) it teaches a horse to get that inside front out of the way for a spin, even though a spin is a forward movement(I can elaborate later) and 4) it can help identify where a horse is "stuck" out at, you can really feel where a horse is stiff at which usually shows up in the face. By softening the parts behind you fix the face.

Basically it is teaching a horse to back counter arced. For example, if you were having heck with roll backs to the left. To teach the back around for that side I would ask for the back up with my seat first and open my left seatbone, use my right leg way back to hold the hindquarter while opening my left leg, set my right right to block forward movement and lift my left rein(like if I was pulling it to my ribcage or arm pit) Your horse should rock his weight back onto the hind, free up the rib on the left, lift his shoulder to be able to step back underneath himself with the front left leg. If done correctly there should not be much resistance in the face and you can let him out/reward by letting him walk out of it on a semi circle or full circle to the left. At first you may only get one step out of him, then you can ask for two and so on. After he understands all you have to do is change your seat and lift your inside rein and he will understand it as "get back", he will automatically shift back, move the rib, and lifting the front end making for snappy roll backs.

When you put him on cattle and he understands this exercise he knows how to use his body to his advantage and he will pay attention to your seat and a slight lift of your inside rein. I have had this work both ways, this exercise help when putting them on cattle and I had putting them on cattle understand the exercise. I completely agree with Wanstrom as far as putting them cattle early, it gives meaning to what they are doing and like she says they don't need to be nit-picked. You can wallow all over them but pretty soon they figure out how to use themselves to get the job done quicker by setting themselves up correctly- but only if we stay out their way and assist when needed and not babysitting otherwise you end up in a big pulling match.

Another thing that helps with working on the fence on a younger horse is using a corner and the walls perpendicular so you are coming at it at a 45* and asking only for a few steps through the rollback as opposed to just using the same wall and asking for a complete 180* roll back. Then as he understands then go turning back and forth on the same wall. The 45* angle also gives enough room for him set himself and tuck/round rather than cheat, throw his head over then fence and flip his hindquarters out making for a U-turn instead of a over the hocks roll back.
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