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Old-School Horse Training: The Snaffle Horse

10K views 88 replies 15 participants last post by  FaydesMom 
#1 ·
There are many different variations of Vaquero horsemanship when it comes to using a snaffle. In the Old California style, the snaffle is rarely used. But in the Great Basin Buckaroo way, the snaffle is an essential tool. Many trainers believe a snaffle should be used for at least the first year. There really isn't a "right" time frame of using a snaffle when it comes to starting your bridle horse. Or any horse for that manner. If you want to strictly stick to tradition, don't use a snaffle. With my experiences, I find the best time frame for using a snaffle is between 25-45 rides. Depending on the horse.
Before I even get on the colt, I want them to soften up and bend to pressure on both sides on the ground, know how to carry the bit(not biting at it), free lunge both directions bitted up, walk, trot, lope, and be very responsive to ground driving. I usually don't do a whole lot of under saddle ground work when I'm starting colts. I do get them used to being cinched up, but not introducing them to weight yet. I really want them to focus on softening up and responding. The first ride I tend to take it very slow. I don't go over a trot in the first ride. I walk them, very quietly back and forth across the arena, work on turning both ways and stoping with the smallest amount of pressure on their face as possible. I really don't start working on collection until about the 15th ride. After quite a few quiet rides in the arena, and they are nice and soft and responsive, I take them outside. I get them working on cattle, checking fences, doctoring, draging calf sleds etc. I find work is a lot more important within the first twenty rides then fine tuning. In about the last 10-15 rides, I bring the horse back in the arena. I do a lot of penned cow work, I work them on the fence to get them rolling around themselves nicely. I work on collection in all gaits. Below I've attached some pictures of me riding an snaffle horse in her 10th ride. You can see how level her headset his, and how quiet she is. This is what I like to see in a well started snaffle horse.
 

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#2 ·
Loose rings, d-rings, egg-butts, oh my!!

Many people ask, what is the best snaffle bit? It is really based off preference. I use them all, loose, D and egg-butts have all worked the same for me, as long as they are either heavy or weighted. As far as mouthpieces go, thats a different story. Many are under the impression that the smaller the moutpiece, the less severe. This is very incorrect. The smaller, the more severe. The twisted-wire snaffle is one of the most severe bits you can buy. It's like picking up a bucket with a very small-diameter handle full of water verses a bucket with a larger-diameter handle. Its the same concept with the snaffle bit, the larger the mouthpiece, the more mild. Twisted wire should be only used by very soft hands to avoid sores and hard mouthes. Horses shouldnt be started in anything but a mild, traditional snaffle with either a full copper mouthpiece or copper inlays. If I am restarting horses with previous under saddle training that are very hard mouthed and need lots of correction, then I will conisder using a twisted copper mouthpiece. I don't use twisted wire. I believe that a horse that needs a bit that severe needs to be restarted from the ground-up.
 
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#3 ·
Very awesome! I have a 2-3 year old gelding that has had a handful of rides on him, last summer i spent most of the time just pony him around with my mare. I know you put a lot of emphasis on working cattle and such, which if i had cattle i would be doing!, but for us without what else would you suggest? How long of rides are you taking your colts out on? I have started lots of colts before but always with an indoor arena to use, this is like the first guy that i will be able to get some mileage on.

Thanks for your informative, non preachy threads! Im sure that once the weather gets nice Ill have a bunch more questions for you.
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#4 ·
Thought up another question, do you do a lot of 'sacking' out, with bags and tarps and what not, or just kinda get on and go? What do you do if you end up with a really bucky horse?
Do you do any tying around either on the halter or snaffle?
Just picking your brain :)
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#5 ·
For someone without access to cattle, I would just recommend doing a lot of fence work to achieve a horse that rolls around himself pretty nice. But other than that, just get them experienced. A good trail ride is extremely beneficial to both the horse and the rider. Build a relationship with your horse. Get to know him and get him to know you. And everything that horse does in the first thirty days doesn't have to be perfect. He still learning, if he trips on himself while working on the fence, don't over analyze it. He's still just a baby and still is getting the hang of himself. Horses make mistakes just like humans. And I see a lot of people tend to over analyze their horses every move in the first thirty days. These colts are gonna make a lot of mistakes. I saw a lady one time, and she was riding her colt, which had been under saddle for ten rides, work for one week just on flexing at the poll and tucking his nose. Don't get me wrong these are crucial things for a horse to learn, and this horse did understand it, but he wasnt perfect. She eventually bored him of working on it and he learned to push through her "corrections" and she had to start back at square one. All I'm trying to say is don't over analyze and over correct your colts. Some mistakes are safe to wait on until the hackamore stage since you are cramming so much into their mind in the first thirty days. Other than that, just ride! Always stay relaxed and don't push the colts too far. As for sacking out, the only thing I really do is get them slicker broke. I find horses just get annoyed with the plastic bag and tarp deal. And a slicker pretty much makes desensitizes them to both. I also don't want my horses numb to a flag or a bag on a stick, just cuz sometimes in the first few rides, they will ball up and not want to move forward with a rider. Then I just have my hubby follow me around with a flag just to encourage them to walk forward. As far as Bucky horses, I kinda like to ride them if they buck a little bit, lol. I used to ride ranch broncs a couple years ago. But if they buck a lot and I can't seem to ride it out of them, or like now, I'm pregnant and "not allowed" lol. I get an inner tube from the tire store and fill it with sand, I then tie both ends and throw it over the horses back. I tie the ends together and then free lunge them. Then they can buck all they want and never "win" because they can't throw the inner tube. Or if I know they are gonna be very broncy with a lot of duck, I'll have my hubby snub them up to one of our broke horses and get on and have him pony me around. There are a lot of other methods to this too, just let me know and I'll go into more depth. I do a lot of tying around before I do ground driving just to get them to give to the bit better and soften up. And for the first ten rides or so, about hour a day. Then I move up to about 4-5 hours a ride. Hope this answers everything!! :)
 
#7 ·
Thanks, just love picking ur brain! I might go down to my neighbours tomorrow and see if he would mind me riding his herd. I cant see it being to much of a problem with his calving season fast approaching. An extra set of eyes is always good. :)
When do you start roping with your colts? We didnt really start them till 4, but would get them used to the rope and dragging logs and such before that?
And Im not sure if I got to congratulate you on ur upcoming baby boy! I have a son as well, will be 2 come the end of March. Boys are trouble but so worth it! He loves the horses and going for rides or just getting pulled around on the tobaggan!
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#8 ·
Thank you! If my sons anything like me, he will be tons of trouble :D usually in their first thirty days as long as their at least three years old. I don't do a lot of big roping, just dragging calf sleds and doctoring calves.
 
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#11 ·
What do you do in terms of cow work to start off, other than a little roping and doctoring?

I have a greenie I've been riding over the winter. Footings not quite good enough to do much other than ride through the herd, follow a few cows, and sometimes quietly cut them out of the herd and hold them for a minute. I'll probably start her in cattle sorting this spring, but trying to think of what she needs to do before then.
 
#16 ·
Just whatever I can get them exposed to. If we are sorting pairs one day, I'll use a colt that hasn't done it before. Or when I used to work at the stockyard here, I would keep a pen of colts there to work everyday on everything cattle related, penning off the scales, alleyway sorting, etc. Any kind of exposure is good exposure.
 
#12 ·
Subbing.

I have a coming 3 year old that's super brilliant and I can't wait to start her.
I started my 2 year old last year in a snaffle and she was super soft and used to it on the ground before I rode her and breaking her was super easy.
I have a video of my dad riding her (her 7th ride, maybe?) when I had my knee surgery.

 
#15 · (Edited)
Sorry, I always forget not everyone talks like me!:oops: Just a nice, collected rollback. And just to clarify, what I mean by working on the fence is like below. This video is of this four year old mares first ride with a tack rein. Sometimes I like to free the horse up and ride with just my seat and a tack rein to get them to rely more on my seat than my hands.

https://vimeo.com/57903033


EDIT: Just uploaded this, so it may take a little while to show up. It isnt anything really special anyways. Just like 10 seconds of a horse working the fence!
 
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#17 ·
What do you look for in a good working ranch horse? At what point do you know whether or not a horse is going to work out for the ranch work in your area?

I'm in a cattle sorting club, and it seems like almost any breed will work alright in cattle sorting (and most of the same horses are also used on ranches). I've only seen two horses that were awful - they were actually scared of the cows.
 
#19 ·
I find this all really interesting. I campdraft, which I suppose is similar to the cow section of working cowhorse.

Campdrafting is done, on the whole, in snaffle bits. From the greenies right up to the open horses. I honestly can't even imagine doing a draft in a curb bit with a draped rein.

I wonder if the training of our draft horses is not as good as it could be because of the lack of progression in bitting. Or wether the use of a spade bit wouldn't be compatable with drafting.

I have always wanted to train a horse to a curb bit and/or a bosal, but I am always worried it will compromise their performance in a snaffle, which is what we have to use for competition.
 
#23 ·
This is the best performed campdrafter in Australia, to give you an idea!

Chevin Ivory Warwick Stallion Rd 1 - YouTube
Not gonna lie, that looks like a blast! Lol. Probably use snaffles because of all the contact? I'd say if the horses are performing good with it and that's the rules, so I wouldn't worry much. Every discipline is different, I've never seen an English rider with a spade bit lol, so if that's the rules, I'd just stick with a snaffle. You could maybe transition to a bosal or leverage for a different discipline, like just trail riding so you don't just have a finished horse riding in a snaffle. Around my area that's frowned upon, but if your horse works well in it, loves his job and doesnt give you trouble I honestly wouldn't worry about it. :)
 
#27 ·
Concerning the camp drafting and the use of snaffle bits in the rules it’s only a fairly resent thing as far as I heard, from maybe the 70s. From what I heard, it was because of a guy called Chilla Seeney. He is pretty famous as a bronc rider and camp drafter here in Australia and went off the US to go on the rodeo circuit there. While he was there he learned about training horses with a hackamore. He also imported a colt who was a grandson (I think) of Jessie James, called Mr Jessie James JR (the grandfather of my old horses). Anyway, he brought the horse and the hackamore into a bunch of camp drafts and kicked everyone’s as#. The locals first ridiculed the hackamore, then threw a tantrum when his hackamore horse flogged their horses so they all petitioned for a rule change in camp drafting which stipulated that the horse has to be ridden in a bit.
That’s what I heard at least.
 
#29 ·
The campdrafting thing is very interesting. And the drama behind the rules is even more interesting! I always wonder about the rules around bits in open classes.Why not just let people compete in whatever they want, provided it's not cruel and is being used properly? I can see having snaffle classes for young horses.

But I'm really not one for a million rules.

Thanks Wanstrom, I always like to hear what people look for. I have a QH/Percheron gelding - I think I've had him for about 16 years now - and he's sure sturdy and still sound. Still can be pretty lively, too! I don't see the draft crosses around here much anymore since the PMU barns closed down.
 
#31 ·
I had never heard of that! As far as I was aware the rule was there to stop the ammies putting a curb on their horses then riding around with contact like they still had a snaffle on. I can see how it would be much harder to not ruin your horses mouth doing something so fast and adrenalin fuelled in a leverage bit.

I might look into getting a Bosal then. I already ride her bitless a lot of the time on the trail, and on a super loose rein in her snaffle, so as to save her mouth a bit. I have always wanted to try a bosal and I think she is one who would go well in one.

And yes, it is super fun! Difficult, and needs a bit of luck, but really fun.

On the working cow portion is there a pattern you have to do, or required moves?
It's all the one event, I just couldn't find a vid that showed both parts well. There is the 'camp' part, which is when you cut your cow from the mob and work it in front of the gate, then you call to open the gate, and then you have the 'draft' portion. In that bit you have to take the cow in a pattern kind of like a barrel pattern. Around one peg, then another in a figure eight, then around the back and through the 'gate' (Two pegs). You get disqualified if you lose your pattern more than once.
 
#37 ·
Yes, sad to say. :( And you were right about him dusting the commpetition wwith hackamose horses! Guess after they changed the rules on him, he put a headstall with a snaffle biy on under the bosal and rode that way! lol Sounds like my kind of guy! ;)

There's a nice article titled on him, Chilla - A Larrakin and a Legend

"On Saturday 3rd January 2009, the body of Australia's legendary horseman, Chilla Seeney, was carried by horse-drawn hearse to his family's grave site in the little town of Monto, Queensland. Chilla (Charles Alfred) Seeney was laid to rest after losing his long battle with Parkinson's disease and passing away on Christmas day. He was 80 years of age. Chilla was "seen off" by more than 300 of his friends and relatives, a testament to the kind of mateship and respect this charismatic character commanded throughout his colourful, and often controversial, life.

Chilla Seeney was a well-recognised "mover and shaker" in the Australian performance horse industry during its heyday - first throughout the early years of rodeo and roughriding, then in campdrafting, and later with the formative years of the cutting horse industry. He was a man of action, driven by what he called "the three Ds" - desire, devotion and discipline, and coupled with this, a fearless competitive spirit. For Chilla winning was everything and with that fierce determination he excelled at every sporting event he set his mind to."

You can read the rest of the atricle here:
Ponderosa Quarter Horses - Chilla - A Larrakin and a Legend
 
#41 ·
I do a heap of walk through spins. Getting correct bend and then just going round step by step just off seat, a lifted inside rein and the outside leg blocking the hip.

I also find doing a rollback then pushing them forward out of it, al least a lope, helps them set back as they need that butt under them to power out, and most of them find it fun so they get motivated.
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#42 ·
Thanks everyone.

I do a heap of walk through spins. Getting correct bend and then just going round step by step just off seat, a lifted inside rein and the outside leg blocking the hip.
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Okay, quick question about this. I use my outside leg to move the shoulder. Am I doing something wrong, or are we talking about different moves? Or do you block the hip so the horse doesn't kick it out?
 
#43 ·
I have a question about bits. What are your thoughts on the differences of the action of a bit that has the chains attached to the bit so they can swivel under the shanks as opposed to bits that have the chains attached to the bit so they are hanging from the back of the shanks? So the fist picture compared to the second picture. (if the pics don’t work let me know Ill try to repost them.
 
#46 ·
LisaG, it depends on the horse. I mostly move the shoulders with my reins and back up with leg if I need to. So to start a rollback/spin, I set back in my seat, open my rein, look over that shoulder, and my outside leg/spur sits around the back end of the rib age to hold that hip in. If she is sluggish with her front end I will bring my leg forward and roll my spur up behind the girth to quicken up her front. Her biggest problem is coming to forward to early out of the turn, so we do a fair bit of backing into the turn, which is where dropping the hip out becomes more of a problem. When I'm in the camp and she is thinking forward and focused on the cow, then my spur will be more toward the shoulder pushing for that speedy depart.
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#50 ·
LisaG, it depends on the horse. I mostly move the shoulders with my reins and back up with leg if I need to. So to start a rollback/spin, I set back in my seat, open my rein, look over that shoulder, and my outside leg/spur sits around the back end of the rib age to hold that hip in. If she is sluggish with her front end I will bring my leg forward and roll my spur up behind the girth to quicken up her front. Her biggest problem is coming to forward to early out of the turn, so we do a fair bit of backing into the turn, which is where dropping the hip out becomes more of a problem. When I'm in the camp and she is thinking forward and focused on the cow, then my spur will be more toward the shoulder pushing for that speedy depart.
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Okay, thanks. I'm not the most refined rider sometimes, and I really need to think about what I'm doing. And this mare moves so fast, I'm sometimes not sure about my form, etc...

It would be great to have a ranch horse subforum on here. I wonder if there are enough people to justify that.
 
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