One last thread about Clem's head scooping/tossing - Page 2 - The Horse Forum
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post #11 of 24 Old 07-04-2013, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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Oh believe me I've tried to find used. There's all of three options on eBay. :) which is why I'm waffling so much about buying one. I was thinking about one of these two hackamores:

Western CP Fleece Lined Hackamore with Curb Strap - Horse.com

Westen SS Leather Nose Little S Hackamore - Horse.com

The second one, the Little S, I have heard very good things about. And they both have the wider noseband. I've not tried lunging in the side reins - she's usually fantastic about lunging, I typically don't actually even use a lunge line. However, I may have to try lunging her AFTER she gets to the point she starts reaching and see how she does.

My halter right now does have rings attached to the sides. I'm thinking about trying her in it, but rope halters are loose and unrefined, and I'd rather have something a bit better.
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post #12 of 24 Old 07-05-2013, 12:33 AM
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Tiedown is a noseband (western)-- aint the same as a english cavesson.

What a tiedown is gonna do is make him front end heavy and be easier for her to pull the reins out of your hands-- i reckon it might cause another problem- the horse planting her front legs and throwing her head up In place of the 'scooping' -or even rearing.


Has the vet been called to see if its neurological?

Sorry if you already answered the questions i asked-- think you could post me the link to your other thread- please? Id like to see a video of her 'scooping'

Last edited by toto; 07-05-2013 at 12:35 AM.
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post #13 of 24 Old 07-05-2013, 01:04 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by toto View Post
Tiedown is a noseband (western)-- aint the same as a english cavesson.

What a tiedown is gonna do is make him front end heavy and be easier for her to pull the reins out of your hands-- i reckon it might cause another problem- the horse planting her front legs and throwing her head up In place of the 'scooping' -or even rearing.


Has the vet been called to see if its neurological?

Sorry if you already answered the questions i asked-- think you could post me the link to your other thread- please? Id like to see a video of her 'scooping'
Oooh, okay. Sorry, when you said noseband I thought you were referring to the Kineton noseband I was referring to. :) I've never heard of a tiedown called a noseband. My bad.

No, I don't have any videos. I don't have any way to take one or anyone to take one for me. I'm almost completely positive it's not neurological, just based on how she acts and selectively starts reaching. She'll completely stop once we stop working or once I put the reins down for her, and her ears will come back up. I've talked to three trainers about it - off the charts, really, each of them was my barn owner (we've been to a lot of barns, she moves to and from school with me) and they've pretty much agreed. I'll ask my current trainer too, if I have her come out again.

I believe it roots to when she was a commercial trail horse, and has just turned into a habit. No doubt those people had no idea how to handle a horse and yanked on her mouth pretty good, so she'd pull the reins away from them. I think it's just stuck with her as a way to mark her frustration (though I can't guarantee I was soft handed when I just started and didn't know anything...) Sort of like cribbing - there's a reason for it when they start, but even after the stressful stimulus is gone often times they will continue out of habit.

I can see what you mean about the tiedown though, and I won't use it if it doesn't seem like a good idea. As to the other thread - I don't have one. I mean, I had one way back in the day before I got her teeth floated and stuff. But this has mostly been in and out in various other threads that have come up... This is the one I posted in, in the second page the in-saddle bit is explained pretty well.

Horse "Scooping" Reins
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post #14 of 24 Old 07-05-2013, 01:35 AM
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Do you have any videos of you riding Clem?

"Strength is the ability to use a muscle without tension"
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post #15 of 24 Old 07-05-2013, 01:38 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Skyseternalangel View Post
Do you have any videos of you riding Clem?

I don't. I don't have anything to take video with, and nobody to take it if I did :( I rarely see anybody else at my barn, and if I do they usually want nothing to do with me. Sooo. :p
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post #16 of 24 Old 07-05-2013, 01:41 AM
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I found a few weeks ago when I rode how I was taught to ride (not with Sky, but with lesson horses) the mare I rode would toss her head because she didn't get any release. I don't give the right kind of release, so she was trying to avoid the bit pressure.

What happens if you just press your hands forward when you ride, on a longer rein with bent elbows?

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post #17 of 24 Old 07-05-2013, 01:46 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyseternalangel View Post
I found a few weeks ago when I rode how I was taught to ride (not with Sky, but with lesson horses) the mare I rode would toss her head because she didn't get any release. I don't give the right kind of release, so she was trying to avoid the bit pressure.

What happens if you just press your hands forward when you ride, on a longer rein with bent elbows?
The reins can have so much slack it's ridiculous - but if I'm holding them, she'll reach. Heck, we don't even have to HAVE reins - like I said, bitted up or not. :p
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post #18 of 24 Old 07-05-2013, 08:58 AM
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I have a gelding who will toss his head, or rhythmically nod, depending on his mood. He quits when I yell "QUIT!!", or stop it, so I know he is just looking for a way out of whatever I am asking,lol.

You could lunge her in sidereins, or even rig up an overcheck, and let her teach herself.

Nancy
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post #19 of 24 Old 07-05-2013, 10:01 AM
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Those are the type of hackamores - depends on how much you want to spend - Stubben do a nice one that's got leather rather than a chain
I would try in a halter first (not rope) with reins attached to the side rings on it - it will give you an idea before you part with any cash
There are also things like the Dr Cook bitless sidepull - I use those and they seem to work OK in them
If the reaction is all down to a long standing thing to avoid pressure on the mouth then they might work
'Reaching' is a really common habit in horses that have been used for beginners in riding schools and trail riding centres, it starts as a way to relieve pressure of someone hanging on their mouth and they cant seem to shake it.
I'm not sure if the sort of grass reins we used to put on our childrens ponies might help - I think you call them 'daisy reins' in the US. They would take some of the weight off your hands and prevent putting the head right down
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post #20 of 24 Old 07-05-2013, 01:34 PM Thread Starter
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Okay. I ended up buying a cheaper Little S hackamore. I like how the other one looks more but the little S seems to have a lot of people backing it. I should have bought some sidereins, it's been suggested a few times - but I'd like to see how this does first.

I'll have to look into Daisy Reins, too. They seem like they might be useful, but it strikes me as being similar to a tiedown - just in a different place. Will have to do some more research.
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