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OTTB Question: New Here

3K views 22 replies 10 participants last post by  SaratogaTB 
#1 ·
Hello everyone! I have recently "saved" a TB from the track that would have gone to a "kill buyer" otherwise. I am a huge fan of TBs, and this is a dream come true for me. "Sousa" is 15.3 hands, a gelding, 7 yrs old. He ran 64 times before retiring. His trainer said "he just gave up and didnt want to run anymore". (He won once by the way!) He is well bred and very handsome, out of the Deputy Minister line. He is a sweet boy and has found a "forever home".

I have had him for 3 months now. I ride hunt seat, back in the saddle after years away. I stable him with a wonderful trainer who is helping me a lot. He is in a barn with 8 other horses and has his own paddock...first time in his life not being in a stall 23 hours a day!

Here is my problem: We are having "balancing" issues at the canter, which I know is normal for a OTTB until they develop those muscles. He is cross firing in the back a bit. So, I am lunging him quite a bit to help him find his balance. I am going to hold off on worrying about the canter for now.

My issue is the trot! For the first 2 months, his head was too high, so I worked on getting him to collect. He started arcing his neck nicely and I use little pressure on him. Now all of a sudden his head is too LOW! Literally he is dropping it to the point that I wonder if he will trip over his nose! Once he crow hopped while doing it, and my trainer believes he is "testing his boundaries" with me. (its hot and he is not always in the mood to work...) But I am not sure why he is suddently dropping his head. My tendency is to want to pull his head up. My trainer is saying to give him slack and dont provide him the opportunity to "hang on the bit", instead, she believes he is "finding the right place for his head" and is still just working it out.

Anybody have any thoughts about this? My fear is that he wants to drop his head so he can buck! So I just keep driving him forward, switching it up with circles, transitions, etc.

Thanks for any advice.
 
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#2 ·
Honestly, it sounds like you have a good handle on things. Keep his mind busy and whatever he's thinking about doing, he won't have time to do it.

Just my opinion, but I would not try to lunge him to build up his balance--whether you're doing it on a line or in a round pen, the circle is going to be too small for him to figure out where his feet are initially. Instead, use very large circles while he's under saddle to help him build balance. Then when he starts to transition correctly, make the circles steadily smaller.
 
#5 ·
Race horses perceive constant contact and pressure from the bit as a 'go faster' cue....coupled with their inability to carry themselves correctly (racehorses carry themselves almost entirely on the forehand), they often hang on the bit until they are taught to use their back end. Racehorses also have a tendency to sometimes take the bit between their teeth and run.
 
#6 ·
I think it helps him balance off of it without needing to balance on his own. He then grows dependant on the bit and it's fairly hard to break him of it. Also, if a horse can have a bit where he can easily grab it between his teeth and bolt, your efforts of pulling the reins will be useless and he can bolt. Not really sure about that question, so don't take my word for it. ;-)
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#7 ·
ok, so giving him slack when he does it means he cant use it as a balancing tool. Please explain to me what it means he has to start doing....does it mean he has to use his hind end instead? Could that explain the crow hop and occasional tail swishing?
 
#8 ·
Yes, that's exactly what it means. If he can't pull himself along with his front end (picture someone running downhill, at first they lean forward, and then they lean back before they fall over) he must use his back end and push himself along. When he does this, he builds up proper muscling in his back and his butt, as well as breaking at the poll and thus building up his neck muscles correctly. Crow hopping and tail swishing have nothing to do with balance...they're a sign that he's generally not happy with what you're asking him to do.
 
#9 ·
The crow hop and tail swishing may be a sign he needs a change of scenery. I ride most of the horses I train outside of a round pen or arena nearly 100% of the time. A horse needs to be able to find his balance in a straight line before you start trying to go in circle and certainly before you lope in circles. Lunging is quite hard on a horse I don't believe it's very beneficial to horses that need that much help. I would work alot at a trot and walk. You also need to be able to control his quarters seperately and back with softness and cadence. If you can place his body where you want it then it will help his balance immensely. Until you can move his front and hind easily and independently I would lay off the lungeing and the loping. That being said I have never seen your horse and your trainer is right there on the ground with you so you should take his advice over a stranger on the internet.
 
#11 ·
I don't have any OTTB experience, but it seems to me that he just needs to get off of his forehand, and that would help him gain the appropriate muscles. Someone correct me if i'm wrong. And I also agree with Sam, it sounds like you have a good handle on things. Keep up the good work.
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#12 ·
Somedays I cant believe I got myself into this! Its truly a journey for him and me! Thanks for the great advice.

Just so you know, I was worried that him getting resistant could have signaled pain of some sort. We was checked by a vet and she said he's in excellent health, and he is sound with no known injuries (which after 64 races is amazing). I also had him evaluated by a chiropractor on Sunday. She said his "thoracic and cervical vertabrae and VERY tight and need adjustment" She did some of that already. She said that this is typical of OTTBs.

I also have a professional saddle fitter coming. My hunt saddle is a good one and he has great padding, but I just want to be sure.

He was so calm, almost lethargic for the first two months. I agree with Kevin that he may be getting bored in our ring. I will begin working him in the field or just doing quiet trail rides for a while to change it up. We also trailered him to another farm to work in the indoor the other day.

I saw what he is doing when my trainer got on him the other day. when she asked him to trot he flew his back leg out, sort of like a cow kick, in protest. She said he is "like a teenager testing you, and seeing what his limits are". When I mentioned this to someone else, she said "that doesnt make sense because OTTBs LIKE TO WORK". Does anyone else think that TBs can just get lazy and obstinate sometimes?

He has also begun having 8 hours a day on grass. Can grass make him ornery?
 
#13 ·
It's not about any specific breed being obstinate, its about specific horses. 99 percent of them will test you. I think OTTB's test you constantly because they are so trained to win and be competitive. My boy raced 95 times, and man, he's a butthead. A year later we're doing okay though, lol. OTTB's do love to work, most TB's in general do, but first you have to prove that you are worthy of working them, no joke. Once you become their steadfast leader, they'll run their heart out for you :)

Grass will not make him ornery, but it might make him spoiled. Horses on the track have no access to grass; they may have some access during layups where they are turned out in individual paddocks, but since your guy went un-injured, he probably hasn't seen anything green since he was a yearling. Its just another thing you have to work through.
 
#14 ·
What you see as obstinant and lazy may just be confused and afraid. Horses want to get along with us. They understand that it is key to thier survival so if we can set them up to succeed then they will work hard for us but if we block them and confuse them and then punish them for not understanding we can't get the best out of them. In think about this every day as I train and work toward being better at getting the horse set up and getting out of its way. If you keep that in the back of your mind and use it as a litmus test before trying anything then you will become a better horseman and your horse will work better FOR you instead of IN SPITE of you.
 
#15 ·
A few things come to mind. First, I wouldn't worry too much about bucking. TB's don't tend to be talented in that area. I'm sure you could sit most out no problem.

I agree with others about not longing for canter balance. He needs muscle first. I forget who said this, (Jim Wofford maybe?) but it's walk for muscle, trot for balance, and canter for wind. To build up those muscles and to keep his mind fresh, lots of hacking and trail riding mostly at the walk would do wonders.

Last thing that comes to mind is that most TB's learn very quickly, but can also get easily frustrated if they do not understand what you want. Your horse raced a long time. He understands bit pressure. This dragging his head on the ground thing is probably him asking, "is this what you want me to do?" I would work at this from his back end. When he starts to get too long in the neck at the trot, transition back down to walk for only a few strides and then back up to trot. Each time you do this, it will drive his hind end under him and shorten his frame a little so he won't be so strung out. It's like a half halt waaaayyy overdone, but most TB's quickly learn what you're looking for and you will find you can quickly shorten the walk steps and finally just thinking walk instead of doing it will accomplish the same thing.

He sounds like a nice horse. I'm sure you guys will do great together. OTTB's rock!
 
#17 ·
If you want him to use his hind end, you could try sitting back more. I did thy with my OTTB mare Annie. Soon as I started sitting back she engaged her rear until I could control it from anywhere.
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#18 ·
Did he get some 'let down' time after he finished racing? They should get a good 6 months out in a paddock with other horses to get the racing out of their system before being put into re-education.

I'm glad you're holding off on working on his canter. The cross-firing is purely a strength and balance issue. I would be doing lots of work on transitions with him at this stage. Walk - trot - walk - trot for now and then start on trot-halts once he's responsive enough to your aids. OTTB's need to be taught basic aids above anything else. Does he move off your leg as soon as you apply your leg aid? Does he come back to walk as soon as you take your reins and halt your back? If not, you haven't done enough work on getting him responsive to the basics. Work on them more before you do anything else.
From that point, it is not about getting him 'collect' with an 'arched' neck. This is wrong wrong and wrong. Before worrying about making him look like a 'pretty show horse with an arched neck', worry about getting him to lengthen his neck from the wither, work from his hind end and start using his back. TB's are difficult when it comes to using their back, they tend to move all legs with a very tense top line. Put him on a 20m circle in trot, and work on millions of transitions, keeping him straight and forward through all of them. Don't let him just dawdle into and out of transitions. From here, start using your back to hold him together, feel your outside rein, ask for some flexion to the outside until he lowers and stretches his neck. You want his head below his withers with the section of his neck that joins to his wither, lengthened. Only when you can lengthen and lower his neck will you get his back going, and only when you get his hind legs stepping under and working will you get him to lengthen his neck. It all comes from the hind end ;)
Start teaching him leg yield in walk and trot to help teach him about an outside rein and to give more response to your leg aids. Leg yield will help teach him to step under with his hind legs and take the outside rein.

Now you say he pulls on the reins... he can't pull if there's nothing solid at the other end ;) Every time he bares down on the reins, put your leg on to pick him up, don't try to pull his head up with your reins, look at the muscle in his neck compared to your arms! You will never win. Leg on every time the head goes right down. Keep him active, lots of transitions again, changes of rein etc. It will be difficult for him to be on the forehand if you are working him forward, holding him together with your back etc. Do you have a trainer? A dressage trainer? I'd recommend going to a decent dressage trainer for a while to give you the idea of this work as it's very difficult to explain over the internet.

And of course they can be lazy and test the bondaries, just like any horse. My boy is also recently off the track and is an absolute pleasure to work with, but he'll let me know if he doesn't feel like doing something alright!
 
#19 ·
Kayty, no, he doesnt move off my leg as soon as I apply pressure. Sometimes I have to give a little kick. Why doesnt he respond more quickly? Sometimes he feelsl like he is "digging in his heels".

He is getting lots of down time and R&R. He has a beautiful field to lounge in and a large stall at night with plenty of human love and attention.

Oh, I should mention, he is a "light" cribber. Only when he eats! He eats a couple mouthfulls, then "takes a hit" on his bucket. I have noticed it happening less and less. I dont expect him to stop. I havent decidede whether to try the miracle coller. What do you think?
 
#21 ·
Cribbing while he's eating would signal to me he has ulcers. My OTTB also only cribs while he eats....he keeps his nose in the hay for the first ten minutes or so, and then starts to crib with each bite or two. I bought a miracle collar for him, and I had to choke him with it in order for it to be effective. You could try it on your guy though, I would just keep the receipt! The best thing for you to do though would be have your vet out and get him scoped for ulcers. The vet will prescribe something called Ulcergaurd, it comes in tubes like wormers, and you treat a horse over a course of weeks depending on how bad the ulcers and scarring are. Usually partway through the treatment, they recommend you also start them on some sort of ulcer preventative as well to keep them from flaring up again.
 
#20 ·
I was going to suggest the chiropractor, I am glad you looked into that.

He might simply be sore from using things he did not have to use in his life before. Sore horse leads to grumpy horse, grumpy horse leads to bad habits.

I am guessing he will require regular chiropractor work for a while until you get him using all the muscles he has to use for his new job.
 
#22 ·
If he's paddocked a lot thats not so bad then ;) It's when they go straight from racing to re-education and get stuck back in a stable all the time with no contact with other horses that you get problems. Still better to turn them out with no work for a few months but what you're doing is fine :)

Ok he's not responsive enough to your leg because you haven't instilled it in him from the word go. Use the good old 'Ask. Tell. Demand' system. squeeze lightly first while using your seat to drive him forwards. If he does not respond, give him a light kick and if he doesn't respond give him a flick with a dressage whip behind your leg. Just don't gob him in the mouth if he leaps forward, you WANT him to jump forward initially. If he's not perfectly off your leg then you'll have difficulty down the track with him when you start working more towards collection and lateral work.
Another method of getting him to go forward when he feels like he's 'dying' on you, is to actually take your legs off his sides for a moment, move them back behind the girth, and put them back on. That will often give them a bit of a shock and they'll react, rather than constantly kicking and squeezing where he will become numb to the aids.

Before you worry about anything else at all, you MUST establish the 3 basic signals to your horse. Stop, go and turn. Practice practice and more practice until he will go when you lightly put your leg on, he will stop when you stop your seat and touch the rein, and will turn when you shift your weight in the saddle. THEN you can start worrying about getting him round :)
 
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