Out of Control XC - Please Help! - Page 2 - The Horse Forum

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post #11 of 31 Old 01-28-2010, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justsambam08 View Post
The one thing that worries me about that video, and maybe it was just the particular horse it was used on, was the fact that the second time she used the pulley stop, I saw the horse balk just a slight bit. If I was doing that at a gallop, that could easily turn into a full on rear. Correct me if I'm wrong Allison or MyBoyPuck, as I've never actually tried this before!
Without a doubt you can accidentally cause a fall. That's why I would never use a one rein stop, which involves a much bigger turning of the horse's head than the pulley rein. The pulley rein isn't as dangerous since it keeps the horse fairly straight forward. It works more by putting the horse into a shoulder-fore position which essentially puts a 5th leg down so he can't bolt straight forward. The OP needs to first stay safe and be able to stop this horse, and then start retraining the bolt out of the horse. Eliminating jumping for awhile and doing flatwork sounds like a good idea.

You just have to see your distance...you don't have to like it.
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post #12 of 31 Old 01-28-2010, 10:23 PM
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Allison posted a useful video. I happen to be riding a jumping horse at the moment who was used to rushing- people who rode him often had trouble stopping him if he was cantering or trotting. I get him into the trot and I first ask with normal aids to transition back to walk. If he doesn't respond to these, I use the pulley rein. After you repeat this a few times, the horse will get more sensitive to your 'whoa' aids and you won't have to go to the pulley rein. Try this a few times before you jump first so you and your horse get the hang of it and he is responding to a normal cue (start with trot to walk, then do canter to walk etc). Then, take the jump and a few strides after landing ask him to trot or walk with normal stop aids. If he doesn't, use the pulley rein. Like the flat work, keep doing this until he will listen to you calmly so you don't have to use the pulley rein anymore and he maintains a regular speed instead of rushing. This method will achieve both of the things you wish to accomplish: he will be sensitized to your aids, and he will slow down.

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are certain and the intelligent are full of doubt"
-Bertrand Russel

Last edited by roro; 01-28-2010 at 10:27 PM.
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post #13 of 31 Old 01-28-2010, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by RomanticLyric View Post
My Boy Puck,

A one rein stop and what Allison posted are pretty much the same thing to me. The lady in the video calls it "an emergency stopping rein." Same dif - at least to me.
No, they're two very different manuevers. A one rein stop involves letting the outside rein and pulling the horse's head around to his hip if necessary to bring him to a stop. Even if done very smoothly, it can easily unbalance the horse. The pulley rein involves keeping contact on the inside rein and planting your fist into the horse's neck while using a "pulley" action on the outside rein to break the horse's stride. It keeps the horse much straighter and has far fewer risks at speed. I don't like that Julie used the term "emergency stopping rein". It leaves too much to question. Both moves have their uses and the former has saved my butt many times. I wouldn't use either one without teaching them to my horse first under controlled circumstances.

You just have to see your distance...you don't have to like it.
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post #14 of 31 Old 01-28-2010, 11:17 PM
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Yeah, I just tend to assume they're all talking about the same thing since the terminology is so similar. My bad.
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post #15 of 31 Old 01-29-2010, 12:08 PM
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When adrenaline is up the "holes" in the training appear.

He is ignoring your cues (or aids) when his adrenaline is up. Usually this is a result of bad habits that have been there for a while.

Back to basics--control every footfall and the speed of each gate. Then add small jumps.
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post #16 of 31 Old 01-29-2010, 12:19 PM
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I like the idea of going back to very small jumps, just ones he barely has to hop over, and getting him calm at that level, then when you have gained his trust and control, start jumping ones that are slightly higher and work your way up.
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post #17 of 31 Old 01-29-2010, 12:52 PM
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I would start of with lots of dressage & then start incorporating small jumps, even xrails into your dressage ride. Start a pattern or exercise & during it go over the jump & then keep going with it like it wasnt even there.

If you are going to keep jumping regularly I would suggest to halt straight after every fence so he starts thinking jump stop jump stop, not jump bolt

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Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid. ~Albert Einstein
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post #18 of 31 Old 01-29-2010, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justsambam08 View Post
The one thing that worries me about that video, and maybe it was just the particular horse it was used on, was the fact that the second time she used the pulley stop, I saw the horse balk just a slight bit. If I was doing that at a gallop, that could easily turn into a full on rear. Correct me if I'm wrong Allison or MyBoyPuck, as I've never actually tried this before!
It has never caused a rear, in my experience, if used correctly. When a horse gallops, it is very heavy on the forehand. It would need to stop, engage the haunch, before it could rear. If you are STILL hanging onto the bit, yes it might cause the horse to rear. BUT, you always release the moment the horse complies.
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post #19 of 31 Old 01-29-2010, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by RomanticLyric View Post
My Boy Puck,

A one rein stop and what Allison posted are pretty much the same thing to me. The lady in the video calls it "an emergency stopping rein." Same dif - at least to me.
The "emergency" stop is also called a pulley rein or cavalry stop.

The one rein stop, traditionally, pulls the horse, with one rein, into a tight circle. At speed, this can cause a horse to fall and roll over the rider. A horse with its head pulled to the side can often still run straight, too.
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post #20 of 31 Old 01-29-2010, 04:59 PM
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The first thing that I noticed is that you're using a bit converter on an three ring snaffle, which takes a very flexible useful bit and turns in into an inflexible, punitive one. That converter means you're using a leverage bit *all the time*, even with your mildest aids.

If you're uncomfortable riding with a two reins, the simplest solution is to attach a curb rein to the bottom ring of the three ring snaffle, and to tie a knot in the curb rein and leave it on the horse's neck. The knot is your emergency brake. Ride on the snaffle rein until you feel the horse leaning, bracing or running, then pick up the knot and bring him back down to pace where you feel like you have control, drop the knot and ride on just the snaffle rein again.

If you're going to use this bit, you really need to learn to ride with two reins; what I described above is a short term solution.
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