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pat parelli vs. John Lyons vs. Clinton Anderson

This is a discussion on pat parelli vs. John Lyons vs. Clinton Anderson within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category
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    05-30-2009, 03:15 AM
  #31
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseloverd2    
John Lyons.... uh.... I have my opinion of him and it is not good ;)
I've heard some stuff about him too. But based on my own opinion of having lived in Parachute for a year, having helped him out at week long clinics, symposiums, and having taken his training course where he oversaw everything.... and having seen him work wonders with nothing more than a round pen, his trusty steeds and a load of patience and understanding....I can't find anything bad training wise...to say about the guy.

He knows his stuff. I've seen him turn around a horse that was so fearful of being in a tight group of horses, that the horse bucked off its rider....in 20 minutes, Lyons had him calm and quiet without any abusive treatment at all. Just psychology and timing and feel.

Another good example....a horse that couldn't be handled by 3 trainers because it had become so headshy it would rear and strike....in three hours Lyons had that horse's head in his lap, able to touch his ears....something that the owner thought was impossible and was ready to put the horse down because of that issue. Lyons saved that horse's life.

Sure, everyone's got their opinions and you might have seen some pretty rank stuff or heard of stuff....but I'm just saying what I said because I was there for that length of time, and not once did I ever see any mistreatment of any animal, be it person or horse from Lyons. That's why I took the course. Otherwise, there's no way in hell .... Course, that said...money-wise....If I'd of known that Clinton Anderson had started a 4 year FREE course that he pays the students to do..I'd of gone there instead. I mean, it's all basically the same and a 4 year course for FREE? Oh, hell yeah.
     
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    05-30-2009, 12:46 PM
  #32
Weanling
Calamity Jane are you a cert trainer? If so I would love to speak with you about it. I am getting ready to go next year and I am so juiced!!!!! I love JL as well and the things you mentioned above are exactly what drives me to become more like him. I haven't ever heard of or witnessed any abuse, so if that is what you've heard about him I would be shocked!!!!
     
    06-01-2009, 05:46 PM
  #33
Foal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawneen    
Calamity Jane are you a cert trainer? If so I would love to speak with you about it. I am getting ready to go next year and I am so juiced!!!!! I love JL as well and the things you mentioned above are exactly what drives me to become more like him.
Yes, I got certified in 2005. If you want to ask me anything about the program please email me. Click here: www.easystephorsemanship.com and my email's on that site.


Quote:
I haven't ever heard of or witnessed any abuse, so if that is what you've heard about him I would be shocked!!!!
I was referring to a comment someone had made on another board a long time ago...about having a friend who claimed to of seen JL whip a horse at a symposium,...but frankly, I don't buy the heresay. It sounded like he said she said stuff, you know?

And since I got to be there first hand at several symps, weekend and week long clinics, and demos that he did throughout the year, I never once saw anything bad or abusive.
     
    06-04-2009, 11:23 AM
  #34
Started
All three trainers obviously get results, I won't argue with that . I don't have a lot of experience with John Lyons' methods, but what I have seen appears to rely a lot on roundpen work, which makes life difficult if you do not have access to that kind of equipment. I saw one episode of his TV series a long time ago and there was a lot of religion and a little horse training. No problem with the religion, but not what I was expecting based on the TV guide discription of the show.
Parelli is a giant gimmick, and his TV show is essentially an infomercial. His horses do listen, and he gets results, but if I rode in a show class in the manner dictated by his system, I would never place.
Clinton Anderson is by far my favorite of the three. His methods are easy to understand and simple to employ. My newest horse is a green broke mixed breed gelding, quiet and with a good mind, but lacking ridden experience. I am currently following CA's Gaining Respect and Control on the Ground and Under Saddle exercises with much success. I have heard CA state that you must gain the horse's respect before he will become a partner. Parelli follows the polar opposite philosophy - partnership leading to respect. Do some CA basics, then, if you feel like it, try the Seven Games to keep your horse interested and fresh. If you have a problem, go back Downunder.
     
    06-04-2009, 01:52 PM
  #35
Foal
I like John Lyons the best but I am a beginner and I am not familiar with Parelli. I am signed up for both Anderson and Lyon's newsletters and it seems that Anderson only sends me adds wanting to buy things. Lyons actually sends me good tips that I use. Plus the articles have a humorous twist to them that make me laugh.
     
    06-04-2009, 02:00 PM
  #36
Started
Just something to throw out there....Lauren Barwick placed Gold in the Paralympics in Beijing in the Freestyle Dressage class and she does Parelli. She's a Level 3 graduate of the program. So you CAN place in shows (and in the Olympics) if you do Parelli ;)
     
    06-05-2009, 03:29 PM
  #37
Foal
Quote:
All three trainers obviously get results, I won't argue with that . I don't have a lot of experience with John Lyons' methods, but what I have seen appears to rely a lot on roundpen work, which makes life difficult if you do not have access to that kind of equipment. I saw one episode of his TV series a long time ago and there was a lot of religion and a little horse training. No problem with the religion, but not what I was expecting based on the TV guide discription of the show.
You're right his OLD stuff had a lot of round pen to it. His NEW stuff doesn't require a round pen at all. He's actually steered away from that. He now has a very basic and very useful simple tool: Bridlework.

It's basically the rein cues you're going to need in the saddle, you start to teach them on the ground first. So, just you, your horse and a bridle (or halter and lead rope). There's a Yield to Pressure exercise...and his Ground Manual stuff and Riding Manual stuff. No round pen needed unless you want to do the leading with contact, and even then...you really don't need a round pen....

He still talks a lot about religion, he's a minister, so I guess that might have something to do with it...

He's on Horsetv now, but I don't get that channel, so I haven't seen anything of his lately.

Quote:
Parelli is a giant gimmick, and his TV show is essentially an infomercial. His horses do listen, and he gets results, but if I rode in a show class in the manner dictated by his system, I would never place.
Marketing is his strength for sure. But you also have to take into consideration that his stuff and Lyons, Clinton Anderson, Chris Cox,...all the NH stuff is BASIC foundation. It's not a finished product. It's a starting point. So, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to place in any discipline if you have a good solid foundation (I think if you can train the horse to listen willingly, be desensitized enough, and sensitized to pressure, that is a good foundation).....then you just add the discipline you want.

And actually, Chris Cox was working on a dressage horse who was being prepped for Grand Prix level...... who was a bucker and a bolter regardless of his years of top notch training. His trainers figured he might be a lost cause, but then as a last resort asked Chris Cox to work with him. He put him through some basics to retrain him to stop those behaviors. I was surprised to see that even a high level trained horse, a $$$ horse had issues because of a faulty basic foundation. So, there's where NH stuff can come in....which is just basic common sense stuff...nothing major, you know? Like bending exercises, get control of the hip, etc...

Quote:
Clinton Anderson is by far my favorite of the three. His methods are easy to understand and simple to employ. My newest horse is a green broke mixed breed gelding, quiet and with a good mind, but lacking ridden experience. I am currently following CA's Gaining Respect and Control on the Ground and Under Saddle exercises with much success. I have heard CA state that you must gain the horse's respect before he will become a partner. Parelli follows the polar opposite philosophy - partnership leading to respect. Do some CA basics, then, if you feel like it, try the Seven Games to keep your horse interested and fresh. If you have a problem, go back Downunder
Clinton Anderson is awesome. But I have to disagree about Parelli following the opposite. Through his 7 games he shows you how to gain respect by way of moving the horse's feet. Same as CA. Same as JL, same as.... it's all just about moving the feet. If you move the horse's feet, and direct those feet in certain directions with pressure and the horse complies, you get "respect" as the leader.

I really like CA's Lunging for respect part 1 & 2. I use these all the time for pretty much everything on the ground. I really like the rollbacks part of it.

Wish he would come out to Calif more often!
     
    06-08-2009, 01:10 PM
  #38
Started
I didn't know that John Lyons was a minister. My grandmother gets the Perfect Horse magazine, that's got some interesting exercises in it.

Most of what I do see of the Parelli methods (on RFDTV) is indeed basic training and problem horse retraining. I do agree that with a solid foundation, which all of the NH methods offer, you can certainly take any horse in any direction you feel like. What really sticks in my mind was a segment I saw during which it seemed like Linda Parelli was doing a fairly advanced dressage demo and doing some unconventional things in the name of more "natural" riding. Granted, I saw this a good while ago, so perhaps I'm mistaken, and I know since then Parelli Level One (and Two, I think) has been overhauled. I'm all for as natural as possible, as long as my safety and my horse's safety remain priority #1 and #2, in that order. I just don't think that the showing system at large is ready for NH riding techniques, at least not veiled by something more traditional. I personally would love to try a showmanship class tackless.

Thank you, Calamity Jane, for setting me straight on JL. I did not know that his system had changed so much. Chris Cox rocks, too .
     
    06-08-2009, 03:02 PM
  #39
Foal
I am a big fan of Clinton Anderson. My husband and I went to one of his clinics in April, and it was so easy to understand and apply once we got home. Starsky has improved so much! I love that he has a humor and it wasn't all dry and boring. Plus, he gave away thousands and thousands of dollars worth of his merchandise to people there.
     
    06-08-2009, 03:20 PM
  #40
Started
None of the above and if they were the only three to choose from my horse would remain untrained..

Chris Cox ROCKS!!!
     

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