Patience are running thin- TIPS PLEASE - Page 2

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Patience are running thin- TIPS PLEASE

This is a discussion on Patience are running thin- TIPS PLEASE within the Horse Training forums, part of the Training Horses category

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        10-04-2009, 04:03 PM
    I don't know what all he went through in his past, I try everything I can think of with this situation, And I have been able to walk up to him and he has walked up to me before, but other days he just runs. Today I walked out there, called his name, and he nickered and he walked up to me.
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        10-04-2009, 04:12 PM
    Originally Posted by SavvyHearts    
    I do not agree at all with chasing him. If a horse does not want to be with you, like in this case, chasing him will serve no purpose other than to finally "give up". You don't want him to just give up and tolerate being want the horse to WANT to be caught, to WANT to be with you.
    A good leader won't always work a horse...if you go up 5 times a week, spend one of those days just hanging out...and doing "undemanding" time.
    That's the argument I always get, it gets really old. My mare didn't like to be caught for whatever reason, so I took a day and chased her. It made it MY idea, asserting MY dominance. She realized it was easier to just be with me than not be with me. She didn't "give up," she wasn't "beaten into submission," she made a choice to be with me. How is it any different than the Monty Roberts "Join up?" It's not, it's a great way to establish your role in the relationship, as well as gaining trust and respect.

    I worked with a mare who wouldn't only run away, but KICKED when you tried to catch her. Keep in mind, this horse didn't work, she wasn't ridden, she was groomed. But she did NOT want to leave her buddies in the pasture. So yes, she dared to spin her ass at me and she got whacked so hard she'll never forget. And I chased her. And it worked.

    That's just two stories. I have tons more. Have you any experience with this method? If you don't, how do you know it won't work, or that it doesn't help or accomplish anything? I never said other methods won't work, because I'm sure they do, but I guarantee they will take longer.

    Horses need discipline, not just praise when they do something good, although the praise is very important, but there has to be a consequence for his actions. By sitting there and reading, you are not telling your horse it's bad to run away, just that it's good to be with you. Yes, it's good to be with you, but if he doesn't want your company, it's entirely possible he'll start running away again, because he doesn't know that that's the wrong thing to do. You are the boss, and he has to do what he's told, period. If a child doesn't do his chores, he gets punished. You don't wait until he does them and just praise.
        10-04-2009, 04:15 PM
    When you chase a horse who doesnt want to be caught you are telling him that not getting caught means he has to work but getting caught means he doesnt have to work he gets to hang out. You are making the wrong thing not being with you hard and the right thing being with you easy. I agree riccilove
        10-04-2009, 04:18 PM
    Originally Posted by chelssss(:    
    I don't know what all he went through in his past, I try everything I can think of with this situation, And I have been able to walk up to him and he has walked up to me before, but other days he just runs. Today I walked out there, called his name, and he nickered and he walked up to me.
    The fact that he only runs away sometimes suggests to me that it is entirely a game to him. If you chase him, it won't be HIS game anymore, it'll be YOUR game, and it's not as fun. You've made the game something else entirely and therefore discourages him from trying again. Respect is key, you are the boss, period. How do horses in the wild get what they want from another horse? They chase each other! They kick and bite and thrash and then they're buddies. Try it, please, I'm not full of crap. =]
        10-04-2009, 04:19 PM
    Originally Posted by RoosterDo    
    When you chase a horse who doesnt want to be caught you are telling him that not getting caught means he has to work but getting caught means he doesnt have to work he gets to hang out. You are making the wrong thing not being with you hard and the right thing being with you easy. I agree riccilove
    Thank god I'm not alone! Haha.
        10-04-2009, 06:42 PM
    Green Broke
    I agree with riccilove. You definitely have to be careful what type of horse you use this method on, obviously if the horse is blatantly scared of you this is not the method to use. But you've described the exact type of horse this method works on - he simply doesn't FEEL like working today, so you can just shove it up your arse. He's blatantly disrespecting you. I've used the "chase" method before and on these types of horses, it always works. Eventually they get bored, realize this isn't fun anymore and they're working anyway and give up. You're basically turning their avoidance of you into YOUR choice - theoretically, you aren't actually chasing them since they're running away anyway, but it switches it around in their mind. Suddenly walking away from you has turned into a much harder workout in the effort to stay away from you, and just not worth it anymore.

    Shay-la uses this method on her hard to catch mare in a 10 acre pasture. She definitely has to work for it, and it's actually more of a join-up method she uses - she positions herself so she always seems to be "in the way" and makes Cinder turn and disengage her hindquarters. If Cinder does boot it hard and get past her, she promptly chases her until she's again in a position to start "ducking" manevours around her to turn her.

    The longest it's ever taken her is 10 minutes. As soon as the rest of the herd gets bored of the game, they start grazing and Cinder starts circling them. Within a matter of minutes, it's stopped being fun and she quietly stands so Shay-la can walk up to her.

    We always find these ultimate ulterior motives for a hard to catch horse, but in my opinion, hard to catch horses are the smart ones - if YOU figure out you could avoid work and keep grazing by simply walking away, wouldn't you? A lot of horses never figure this out because they're programmed from birth with humans being dominant - typically it's the smarter ones that figure out humans are not infallible and they really don't HAVE to listen. By using a very dominant maneuvour on them out in the pasture, you're teaching them that regardless of how far away you are, regardless of WHERE you are, you still reign supreme and they simply can't win.

    Best of luck!
        10-04-2009, 07:00 PM
    Green Broke
    It's called a simple bucket of feed, lol.

    Sorry, I have the same problem with our pony mutt and I always eventually give in to the old-fashioned feed bucket trick.

    But besides that, I do prefer the run till they give in trick. It works with others and dosen't for others, so I guess it's that 'it various per horse' kind of ordeal :/

    CHASE? No. SEND? Yes.

    No chasing. You more send the horse away from you until they want to stop. It might sound similar, but it's different in my eyes.
        10-04-2009, 07:13 PM
    Originally Posted by Sunny06    
    It's called a simple bucket of feed, lol.
    I think she already said that he just walks up to it and then walks away. It might not have been in the first post.

    For a couple of days when my TB tried to do that, I SORT of chased him....It was more of a herding thing (I've seen my shelties do it to pretty much anything that runs) but I really just followed him anywhere he walked away from me not really making a big deal out of it, all while moving him towards the front of the pasture. After a few minutes he stopped and let me catch him, and now its to the point where I don't even have to walk back to get him, he hears my voice and starts walking up!

    As for the reason for "chasing" horses, its a reverse psychology thing....if you "chase" them away from you, you're excluding them from your herd, and since horses are herd bound animals.....eventually he'll turn around and ask to be included.
        10-04-2009, 07:39 PM
    Originally Posted by riccil0ve    
    Thank god I'm not alone! Haha.
    LoL....actually....I did this over the summer, too. Annie was moved to my dad's in May and was alone all summer. In June I noticed she was making getting a halter put on into a game. I say "game" because this horse has had a life of leisure so far - VERY light riding, nonstop affection, treats, etc. She is actually not a really fearful horse, either (just be careful with fly spray ). She was acting outright silly when I approached her with a halter. And we weren't even "working" at the time...just occassional ground manners, then an hour of eating tasty lawn grass.

    I really think that being alone for the first time in her life was boring her to death.

    One day I was watching her prance around when I was trying to get her halter on and got fed up. I thought, "If you want to play, let's play." So I stomped my feet at her and ran towards her. She perked her ears forward, shook her head side to side, and pranced off into the pasture. I didn't follow, just waited for her to come back. We did this for a full hour. By the end of it, she walked right up to me and let me put the halter on her. The next time I went out, it was a half hour of this. The next time, 5 minutes, and after that I guess she was over it, because now she just stands and waits for her halter to be put on.

    However, like Macabre said, I would be careful of doing this with all horses. If I did this with the horse I just got (abused, fearful), I think it would be awful.
        10-04-2009, 08:12 PM
    I would suggest you get Parelli's Natural Attraction DVD from the Success Series. That's an excellent one, and should help you.

    Sometimes it can be appropriate to chase your horse. Not in a mean way, but like, "You wanna leave? Great, let me help you!" kind of way. MAKE IT A GAME! If the horse is TRULY confident and he's just blowing you off, this can really work. There are days where I'll just go play "tag" with my horse out in the pasture, I don't even think about haltering, but this is only on his more independent days where he really needs me to do something unpredictable to get his attention and his play drive up! Confident horses need us to be predictably unpredictable! Lol.

    However, it's up to you to figure out WHY he's blowing you off in the first place. Usually, with confident horses, it's because the human is boring and he sees no reason to come because his herd is much more interesting. So now it's up to the human to be VERY provocative, unpredictable and imaginative to get this horse to WANT to come.

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